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Deepest Spirituality Podcast Season 1 Episode 5: Leveraging Spiritual Retreats on Our Journey with Andrew Lentz

Andrew is a musician, mystic and software engineer based in Minneapolis, MN. He has music available online with his band, The Floating Perspectives, and his soon-to-be-launched solo endeavor *Splash!*. He can also be found with the bands Paper Chain, and Artificial Flowers. Follow him on insta @splashy_songs or check out splashysongs.com for more info!

Andrew is a musician, mystic and software engineer based in Minneapolis, MN. He has music available online with his band, The Floating Perspectives, and his soon-to-be-launched solo endeavor *Splash!*. He can also be found with the bands Paper Chain, and Artificial Flowers. Follow him on insta @splashy_songs or check out splashysongs.com for more info!

Welcome, fellow truth-seekers! It’s time for the fifth episode of the electrifying Deepest Spirituality podcast. I’m Sunshine, the pink-haired psychic medium, taking the reins while my co-host Devin, the mindful mage, embarks on his own mystical escapades. Get ready for an enthralling adventure!

Google search away from enlightenment with our cherished guest, the marvelous Andrew Lentz. Together, we delve into a topic that has piqued our curiosity after attending a life-altering retreat: why do people flock to spiritual retreats? How does it tie in with their spiritual journey? Brace yourself, for this is the heart and soul of our discussion.

Join us as we unravel the mysteries of spiritual retreats, uncovering the transformative power they hold. Together, we’ll plumb the depths of our own experiences, sharing insights and illuminating the profound impact these retreats have on our spiritual growth.

Are you ready to embrace the unknown, to venture beyond your comfort zone? Come, fellow travelers, let us embark on this extraordinary journey and unlock the secrets that lie within.

Sunshine: Hey everyone, welcome back! I believe this is the fifth episode ever of the Deepest Spirituality podcast. This me I am Sunshine, the pink haired psychic medium. And typically I am joined by my co host, Devin, the mindful mage, but he is off, I think galavanting and doing, I think of an ecstatic dance event today. And so I said, I would meet with our very wonderful and beautiful guest today, oh, by myself. So just before I introduce myself, I want to remind any person that happens to be listening to this podcast. And if you like it, if you dig it, if you enjoy it, go check out all of the rest, because this is not going to be the only one that is out there. Check out any of the other podcasts on all the major podcasting platforms. And you might have been able to find us on YouTube at some point. So maybe check there, right do maybe do a Google search or something like that if you dig us. 


But today I joined, I feel very, very blessed to be joined by not only you know, someone that I’ve come to know, but somebody that I consider family now. Andrew Lent is joining us today. So I’m excited about that. And we are as far as our topic. We’re you know, it was interesting, Andrew and I both found ourselves kind of stepping out of a retreat in the last week. And I went and scratched my head and said, Why don’t we kind of talk about that? Why don’t we talk about that. So that’s what we’re going to be talking about today. Why do people go to spiritual retreats, what does that have to do with their spirituality. But before we dive into that topic, I’m going to channel my best Devin, the mindful mage. And I’m going to ask all of you right now just to sink in for this quick moment. As we all connect, I want each of you that are listening if it is safe to do so of course, if you are driving, please do not do this. 


But if it is safe to do so maybe close your eyes, even close your eyes. And I want you to imagine from the top of your head, this brilliant, beautiful, amazing beam of white light just scooting far, far, far, far up into the universe, all the way all the way to like it seems it almost can’t go any farther. And at the very other end of that brilliant beam of white light, you see a pulsating, vibrating, swirling, lively, ecstatic star. And that star is a representation of your higher self, your unconscious, the side of you that connects to everything else. And I want you to see that vibrating of your star, your higher self and I want you to glance around. And for me, I can see Andrew’s star vibrating, pulsating, even though I know he is states away. It feels as though it’s only an arm’s length distance from me. And as you go ahead and look around, maybe even with your mind’s eye looking at a complete 360 I want you to notice all of the other stars that are beginning to show up. Each and every one that is representative of every single soul that walks this material plane, every human and the representation of their higher self. And the moment that each and every one of them come into view come into existence, I want to have you imagine coming from the middle of your star, a line that reaches out and connects almost as though a web through every other star that you can see.


This, my dear friends, is the collective consciousness. We are all connected to our higher selves. So as we sink into today’s topic, I want you to remember that all of this knowledge, all of this information, all of these why’s that we are digging into and sharing. You can connect to them at any time through that star constellation that beautiful net of stars that you just discovered. All right, my dear friends, I want you to go ahead and take a deep breath in. Exhale out. Come back here with me and our amazing guest today, Andrew, welcome.

Andrew: It’s so nice to be here. Sunshine.

Sunshine: I would love it if you would start us up. I know that and I thought about this, what a crazy question and maybe complicated question to start with. But I would love to share with us. I know you, but who is Andrew Lentz? 

Andrew: Yeah. Well, Andrew Lentz is definitely a seeker and a mystic and a musician. Sometimes a software engineer, a Lover and Friend, you know?

Sunshine: I know, isn’t that a question? We’re always kind of trying to answer like, really?

Andrew: I have one point of awareness and the infinite sea of consciousness.

Sunshine: The stars of the internet you know, we’re here talking about the deepest spirituality podcast, we’re talking about spirituality, often helping people, you know, gain a perspective of all of the different ways that people explore their own spiritual journeys. And so Andrew, I would love it, if you would share with us. And I’m actually really excited because I mean, there’s probably some things I don’t even know about in this. What has your spiritual journey been? Like? What kind of milestones have made a really big impression on you along that journey?

Andrew: Yeah, it’s definitely been a long and sort of sprawling one that’s taken me through a lot of different places I’m trying to remember. Yeah, around the same time, I discovered hermetics, and psychedelic mushrooms. And, you know, as written, definitely, the psychedelics and plant medicine, like, did a really effective job as it does sort of open up my idea and my perspective about life, what life really is, and what’s possible in the universe. So that was, that was definitely an early and important element. But it was something that only fueled a sort of spiritual curiosity that was already there. And so I was always interested in finding other ways to connect with and understand about life and not not be dependent on any one thing and reading the Kabbalah and, and hermetic philosophy was sort of an early thing that connected with me really strongly and just worked with my worldview. But I didn’t really have a way to practice. I didn’t have a hard time making it practical at the time. And the same is true, I had sort of a sporadic yoga and a sporadic meditation practice for awhile, but I had a really hard time doing anything consistently. 


Until eventually, I ended up going through a really difficult breakup. And I was living right around the corner from a meditation center at the time, and just kind of threw myself into going there. And having this like community support, having a place that I could go, to have, you know, instruction and to have the reinforcement of like a group and the schedule and stuff really helped me get my practice started in a consistent way. And all of a sudden, it felt like all of these seeds that I had planted by reading and by studying now, all of a sudden, I was watering them. See these things, deepen experience in my life. And so I was going, going along with that, and I was even starting to get to the point where, like, you know, like, maybe there aren’t like these big, dramatic breakthroughs, you know, like, maybe it’s just a slow, slow natural development, you know, and that’s okay. 


And then like, later that night, I was sitting in meditation and reading a book and just had this very sort of dramatic shift or opening that included a lot of like, visuals and things which I am not inherently a very visual person. And but this I don’t know, this was there. Just a very dramatic experience that I was having completely sober, just through meditation. And it was like a big shift after that, you know, ever since then, it’s been pretty much set. I started doing it.

Sunshine: I’m curious, Andrew, what your perspective is, why do you think? Why do you think the community thing changes stuff? Like what do you think I would love from your perspective? Why was that a key? 

Andrew: Yeah,um, I almost feel like it’s, it’s like kind of a cheat code in life. You know, it’s like when you want to do something, surround yourself with people who do it, whether that’s playing music or like, having an intuitive business. I know you’ve built a really amazing network with some of our mutual friends and you’ve all been together, going that way. But you know, it’s almost like the flip side of peer pressure, it’s like, there is a lot of power in, like, harnessing the momentum of a group. And that’s something that we can use skillfully, instead of just sort of dragging us along where the prevailing currents go. I mean, that’s a big part of how I ended up in the program where you and I met was, you know, looking for community reinforcement for the direction that I was trying to orient my consciousness in, rather than the way that the world at large tries really hard to orient it.

Sunshine: I love that. I love that you called it a cheat code, because it is kind of an easy way to unlock an accelerated juice, you know, like, a power up a level up of your spiritual experience. On that note, because I would imagine some of our listeners may be wondering this, because I run across this every now and again. How do you think it impacts your life, individuality? Or does it impact your individuality? When you’re working in a community or leaning on a community or learning from a community? Where does the individual sit in that?

Andrew: That’s such an interesting question. Because I really do feel like it can sort of go one of two ways where it can go that sort of like mob mentality where you really lose yourself in it. But in the last few years, like, what I’ve been doing is being very intentional about trying to find communities, you know, for the purpose of deepening my self awareness and my self expression. 


So in that case, you know, it can become a really beautiful, like, safe container, like the one we had, where sort of the group tides are towards, like acceptance and understanding and personal responsibility. And so then you almost become more free to be more yourself and to explore and to express parts of yourself that maybe you got distanced from in the flow of regular life.

Sunshine: Yeah, no, I love the way that you chose to answer that, because I would agree that it’s very much so kind of how you select now, I’ll tell you this, just because my guides themselves are kind of like doing the little bit of the warning sound. You know, it? It is possible to slip into what you called the mob mentality, I’m going to call it what it really is: the cult mentality. Sure. Yeah. Like that’s, like, when we’re talking about spirituality and things of that nature. Right, folks that are seeking community. There are no shortages of stories of individuals that have taken advantage. And my guides are giving me kind of WARNING like, if something doesn’t feel right, trust the feeling. You step into a community and something feels off, something feels uncomfortable, you know, something rubs you the wrong way. It is not you, it is them. 


And so definitely take warning on that, I feel very strongly about that community and the aspect of community, when it comes to our spiritual journey can be so unbelievably powerful. Especially because it can feel so lonely on this path. But man, you know, getting into the right one and knowing how to trust yourself that you exit ones that aren’t aligned, I think is really important. Well, I think we kind of gave everybody a little bit of a heads up, and I really want to give some good time to you know, our, our meat of this topic. retreats, like we’re talking about community. 


And so if you’re gonna go on a retreat, right, you’re gonna go and you’re actually gonna go somewhere, to do some spiritual practice with a lot of people. So that’s kind of like this little tiny, micro temporary community that’s created, maybe maybe even lasting longer, right, you know, in our case. I’d love to know a little bit more about the retreat that you were on. We’re gonna go into some deeper questions, but why don’t you just give a real high level for us first of like, what this retreat was.

Andrew: So the thing that I was just that was actually more of like a coach training, like split into two weeks. It was like very instructional and more focused on like, teaching us like this philosophy in these tools rather than like, giving us a retreat experience, although there was, you know, a lot of opportunity to, like, demo and see these tools demonstrated and have them used on ourselves and each other Um, but I do I do have a very extensive history of, of residential retreats and like Buddhist meditation tradition.

Sunshine: Really, how many have you been to? I’m curious.

Andrew: I probably may have been on several months worth cumulatively. There was a period of years where that was like a really, really big focus. The first one that I went down was for two weeks. Wow, that one was really unconventional . It was called self, not self and the creative process and instead of just the normal like sit, walk, sleep schedule that a lot of other Vipassana retreats have, there were three day periods where we did movement, and drawing and writing. see, I’m sure a lot of purists will shake their fists at that. But I had a really amazing experience that set the course for me in a number of ways.

Sunshine: I mean, I think what a retreat is for and I don’t, you know, the instructional, the training, the coaching. I mean, my theory is like if you are stepping outside of your home in your own environment in order to engage yourself in new knowledge. Okay, yeah. Right. Yeah, like new knowledge, like, because let’s be real, you know, do whoever’s hosting could call it a whole slew of different words. They could call it a whole slew. 


So if you’re stepping outside of your normal environment for a place to gain additional knowledge, it’s kind of like, I like the word like, what literally retreat means, you know, the definition means to like, fall back in and you know, reassess, learn. See what, right. So yeah, I mean, even though you might have called it coaching, I would still say it had a lot of qualities.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s fair.

Sunshine: I seem, you know, I mentioned the same thing I was in mind when you said yours was two weeks that was like, wow.

Andrew: We split up. There were two non consecutive weeks.


Sunshine: Ah, they allowed you some time to like, integrate in between and everything. 

Andrew: Yeah, to go home and like practice.

Sunshine: Yeah, mine was sad, because it was so enjoyable for like, two days.

Andrew: What was  yours all that, like.

Sunshine: Two days? Well, so mine was unwell. Mine was a somatic therapy retreat. So Louise’s thing was so good. Yeah. Like, I’m happy to share some more as we dive into it, but Yeah, mine was, you know, so this saying, like, retreats can be weeks long. They can be days, like, there’s actually sometimes day long retreats. Like they start at 8am. And they end at like, 6pm. and stuff, right? Like, stepping outside of your normal environment in order to get engaged yourself in new knowledge or even practice knowledge you’ve already learned is great to me. Well, you know, who am I kind of given this definition? But why? Why do you believe? Why do people go on? Why do people go on retreats? Why do you have this month’s long catalogue of retreats that you’ve attended? 

Andrew: Yeah,, well, I mean, for, for like a meditation retreat or something, you know, it’s really to like cut away a lot of the extra things and to go to this, like intentionally cultivated space, wherein there really isn’t anything else to do other than be present with with your own mind and your own experience. And, you know, I’ve learned that that becomes like, it takes on this whole momentum, like, it almost becomes like, it’s almost like I’ve never had an uneventful retreat, like you can, you’ll have really difficult sets and you’ll have really good ones but like, there’s always just when you’re in that container, like you’ll see sort of the arc over time and like the the work is being done, kind of being there and not having any escape. You know, on the other hand, there’s retreats that will go on to like to learn or to have some kind of experience, you know, the week before. Before the last half of this training, I went to my first medical ceremony and I realized how ridiculous the $1 amount I’ve spent on travel over these past year and a half. I’m going to Ireland with some friends next week. I realized that’s the first time in a very long time that I’ve gone someplace not with an agenda. I’m not going for a program I’m not talking about.

Sunshine: Medicines here mighty did you do Ayahuasca?

Wow. I have yet to know one day I’ll be called to that. I meant to say um, you know, I was sitting here thinking like, how would I? How would I answer that? Why do people go on retreats and I am saying right removing yourself Am I? And I’m starting to think of these very, like, elaborate, like, why? And I was like, No, it’s to like, give yourself time to grow your spirituality. I mean that like, to me, and don’t get me wrong, there are physical, like, there are retreats that are all about physical health and things of that nature, but I am talking more so about spiritual retreat, it is simply put to grow your spiritual practice. I mean, there’s like no other way to define it, you know.

Andrew: And for me, I feel like the physical physical health and like just healing and spirituality have all sort of become one sort of.

Sunshine: You know, I’m thinking of people that go to week long boot camps for weight loss and stuff like or a yoga retreat. So, you talked about this retreat, this last one that you went on, or this, you know, the coaching program that you went on for two weeks, two different weeks, you know, like, not even back to back, but just like, today, you’ve traveled for both of these. Yeah, what drew you to this retreat, like maybe you want to share a little bit more about it, whatever you’re comfortable sharing, like what drew you to this one.

Andrew: So this one was, it’s an opportunity to study with Dr. Robert D. McDonald, who is a really, really interesting guy. He’s based out in California, he was a master NLP trainer for many years. But he got kind of frustrated with the limitations of NLP and the fact that as he puts it, it’s all all sword and no heart. And, like, it just had these inherent limitations where it didn’t have any concept of spirituality. And so he took these tools that he had learned from his years as a master trainer and NLP, and took his very sophisticated spiritual understanding and developed them further. And he’s Jewish that Devin was here for this who’s some some crossover with hypnosis, which I know is it

Sunshine: Was definitely bummed to miss it. But I was like, this is ripe off of his read. I said, I’m sorry, I said, we got to do this.

Andrew: But he, I mean, it’s hard to explain. I mean, there’s some videos you can find out there of him, like doing his thing on calls over zoom, but it’s hard to explain, like, he has just these seemingly very simple techniques that can create very powerful change in people’s lives. Whether it’s with mental emotional things, or even physical healing. And it’s really, it’s just amazing to watch him work. Like, I’ve rarely seen that level of mastery, where when you see him like in, in a process with someone, like learning these processes, myself, you know, there are situations things that people say, or things that come up where you’re like, oh, I don’t know how to respond to this, this isn’t follow the script that I know. But watching him like that, he always knows exactly how to respond to everything. And he just has a very, like, integrated in depth understanding of these tools, many of which he created. And it’s, it’s just really inspiring to see that level of mastery at work and benefit from the powerful understanding he is he’s created. He’s cultivated over the years of what the mind is and how to create change.

Sunshine: So in these two weeks, and Andrew, were you, were you learning how to do these techniques?


Andrew: Yeah, it was eight, eight different tools and a lot of like, background and like context. That’s necessary for understanding them. But then yeah, he would demonstrate one feature to us, and then we break off into groups and practice with each other.

Sunshine: I’m curious. So he sounds fascinating, I’ve definitely heard a lot about him. One of love too, attended myself, and still may at some point, if he’s still offering them. Why are you drawn to it, though? What was it about? What was it about him that drew you beyond like, in the personal realm, not just like him, but like, What were you expecting out of this?

Andrew: Yeah, that’s a great question. A lot of what I do is always driven from my own personal healing and my own interest in having healing tools so that I can have something to offer other people who have been through similar things. Also, just the fact that he it’s such a verbal, based, like technique that he’s, that’s that’s sort of where I come from natively is the thing about things like very linguistically so it’s it’s a set of tools that were very compatible with my natural way of being and also as a musician and an artist and a storyteller. 


I’m always very interested in learning how to like make that become helped that become ritual and become ceremonial and become tools for healing like very explicitly. And so I was hoping that things that I learned about like the precision of words and language and how they make change is something that I can then harness intentionally to that area as well.

Sunshine: I really, I look forward to seeing how you translate that because I think that can be very beautiful. Like the pictures that pop up in my head of taking what you would have learned and turning it into like this creative, more musical lyrical. You know, there’s a lot of beauty in that, a lot of beauty in that I’ll share with you. I know a little bit about you and said that I would go to Louise’s retreat, so yes, I did. 


Luis Mohinga is his name for those that are listening. He is the I guess, I don’t know. I don’t know what it’s like, how he describes himself, the owner found I don’t know of Holistic Life navigation. He is a somatic therapist, nutritionist and lovely human being.


I mean, there’s no person that I’ve ever met that I have fallen like, more deeply and madly in love with, like, as fast as I entered in all like this beautiful, like, not romantic or, but just this like intense, intimate. I mean, he’s such a beautiful soul. And so by somatic, you know, it was interesting, because I just shared with somebody this all having to do with spiritual therapy of the physical body. That’s the way I described it. 


Spiritual therapy of the physical body learning, and understanding how things like trauma or difficult memories hold themselves within our body. And not not through talking. Right, this isn’t the best part that he teaches, right? Not through talking. But through feeling and witnessing it and allowing it to move through. And so for our retreat, there were three, there’s a term called co regulation, being able to regulate your emotions through an external force. 


And he taught us how to co regulate kind of like, boundary like spatial boundary, co regulate with nature, and then co regulating through touch was another one. So yeah, it was pretty amazing. You know, there was like, I couldn’t tell you the exact number, maybe 25 or 30 of us there. And, as far as what would have drawn me, I mean, I love him. I told him I was joking. I don’t know if I ever want to share this with you. But during one of our in person retreats that we’re at last year, when he was there, I had a vision for him. Have you ever heard the story?

Andrew: I can’t remember what to say

Sunshine: I had a vision. So do you remember the time where he walked around and like, he put his hands on everyone. And just kind of like, remember that time while he goes and he’s walking around, and I’m kind of like towards the end, and he puts his hands on my shoulders. And he actually put them like, right here, whatever. And all of a sudden, I get this vision, right? And it’s this big, big, like, blue ethereal being. That is in the form of an Indian, like, in a native, you know, like, had dressed and Long’s, you know, hair and, and it and as he’s moving his hands. It’s like, it’s almost as though it’s Marian netting. Luis.


And it was like this crazy vision, right? And, you know, and I watched, I just watched this, I pull him aside, and I tell him this, and he’s, like, starts laughing and he goes, you’ll never believe it. He goes, he’s like, before the retreat. I’ve left Puerto Rico because I’ve been starting to learn about my ancestry. And he goes, and he goes, after the retreat, I go back and I’m actually venturing down a deep spiritual exploration further into it, and he’s, he’s Puerto Rican.


 And his ancestors, specifically that he was going back to, where to learn more about the Taino Indians. And so we were like, Whoa. I told him I was like, will you please tell me how it goes afterwards when you call me? And I didn’t hear from him. So I joked, I said, The only reason I signed up for the retreat was he never called me if I had to come to the retreat, just to find out how that went. You know, I was doing it.

Andrew: What was the report from him?

Sunshine: Actually  it was such a short amount of time. You promised that we’ll connect up afterwards.

Andrew: I am very jet was that I couldn’t be there as well I’m, I absolutely need all the Luis medicine that I can get in my life

Sunshine: He’s got another one in the fall that he’s doing in upstate New York. For anybody that’s listening to this, we’re releasing these after but he’s also will be doing one next year, maybe a little bit longer so super excited for it.

Andrew: What important like medicine for the world and for our whole society, like I feel like where we’re at is like, like you were saying the somatic like the non intellectual like I feel like we’ve gotten to a place where like, psychological ideas are widespread enough that everyone has a neat little story to help understand, like, why they are, where they are, and how they are. But we’re really reaching the point of the culture we’re like, Oh, why isn’t that enough to change it? And it’s because you know, it lives in the body.

Sunshine: You know, for anybody that’s, you know, here listening, you may also have the belief of past lives, reincarnation, your soul’s evolution. And let’s be real, if that’s the case, right? You could have had trauma experiences, contracts, things that happened in past lives that you’re still holding in your body and reacting to today. So you’re not going to talk therapy yourself out of that shit. Oh, God, the time that I was King George and I, you know, yeah. Like, No, you’re not going to talk therapy yourself out of that. 


So it allows like, it’s this beautiful practice just allowing yourself truly, I mean, to recognize how human you are. Yeah. Right. Through your emotions. And like, being kind to yourself. I mean, I, I would say, if I had to put a top three list together, I’d love to hear yours on this top three most impactful things that have ever happened to me in my life, on my spiritual journey. My number one would be getting sober, stopping drinking.


My number two would probably also be you know, which came well, before that. I do think plant medicine psychedelics would be like, they open up a perspective on life that you just do not have. Otherwise, it’s just like you do it. And then you’re like, oh,my eyeballs can lie. I mean, that’s where my eyeballs can lie. What else is a lie? And I would say, the work this somatic work with Louise. 


Like, there is something unbelievably stealing, not just for yourself. But for other people, like watching someone being able to recognize that someone is in a trauma response, seeing them in like, fight, freeze, fight like and being like, are you okay? Do you need a moment? Should we start like, wow, you know, there’s a side of humanity that you just don’t see, when you, I should put it up every day, there is a side of humanity that you get to see when you start to surround yourself with people that know these skills. 

Andrew: Yeah. in order to be able to be with someone else in a state of crisis, you know, like, you have to have a certain level of like, understanding of building like a container for your own feeling. So you can like, give them space to have theirs and not get confused with yours or not let your fear, anxiety get in the way of love, being present with what they really need.

Sunshine: Oh, 100% I recently was talking with a client and they had asked the question, which, you know, I often get asked, How can I tell the difference between my feelings and thoughts versus somebody else’s feelings and thoughts? And of course, I can’t imagine that they liked my response. But I’m like, You have to know your feelings and thoughts first.

Andrew: Oh, man,that’s wild that you say that because that’s almost verbatim, something that Dr. Robert said. Like, he talks about the three perceptual positions of like self, other an observer, is like, in order for the like, it’s like you need to, like be i in order to be a way like you need to. There needs to be that first perceptual position of the self before there can be another or an observer.

Sunshine: Oh, 100%. And, you know, it’s, it’s interesting, kind of the thought that my guy just put into my head was it’s really hard. I think, I think, I think for most of our time in life, majority of folks define their own identity define their own I externally Yeah, right, you know, by their job, by their family, by their position in their family, by the friend circle by the social events that they do by the hobbies that they have. Right? Rather than looking truly like, putting that mirror to them and saying like, no, the AI is, is what I feel. Yeah. What I say to myself, it’s what I think of myself. Right? It has nothing to do with all those other external things. I’m curious. Dr. Robert, uh, you know, and I’m familiar with a little bit of his techniques and stuff, does he get into somatic work, does he talk?

Andrew: Indirectly, I mean, first of all, like, one of the first things that he did was, the first training I did is like, have us like, grab all of our emotions that we’ve forced over our head and like, bring it back. And so I would say, like, sort of indirectly, were there you know, it’s very important, like a lot about like, coming home to the body and being honest about what you’re seeing and feeling. But then, it’s more directly working with like, the manifestations of mine, which includes feelings, but also like images, sounds, smells and tastes. And sometimes I can even say like, it feels like let it become stronger, and like, allowing it to become an image or a phrase or something like that. Like, those are the kinds of tools that he’ll use. It’s interesting. Like, I feel like between the two retreats, we just went to, we’re holding like two poles here, if like, the very somatic and the very, like, mental, like, intellectual.

Sunshine: I would agree. And it’s interesting, even when I hear you say that they’re still like that piece. And each, right so even like, yeah, right, like, even with police, he’s like, okay, you know, and somebody’s like, you know, I’m in a panic, I’m feeling you know, this and he’s like, Okay, you’re saying that, but where are you really feeling that? And you’re like, because that’s your thought, right? You’re thinking that is really what but where are you feeling that? And then, and then people will be like, Oh, well, it’s like a pressure in my chest. You know? 


Andrew: No,that’s so similar to what Dr. Robert does, like he was that’s a big part of what he was trying to, like, hammer into us is when he’s talking to people, he’s like, most of what they want to say it’s like you like, let your clients talk, because they need to say and to build rapport, but most of what they want to say isn’t actually what he needs to hear. Like, they’ll tell a lot of stories, you know, or like, a reason why when he’s trying to, like, self fix a phobia or something. 


He’s like, what’s actually happening? It’s like, well, I see an image in my mind that he’s trying to, like, get very specific about what is actually being experienced, seen heard, felt like where it was, oh, you hear about it? Like, is it on your left side or right side? How far away and like, it makes you realize, like, how much assuming and how much kind of glossing over we do not just in communication with others, but in our own experience, and like how hard it is when someone really asks us like what, like, what, hold on, what am I actually seeing and what I’m actually doing?

Sunshine: Reminding me of the first question I just asked, I asked you, who is Andrew lens? Yeah. I hate like, like, is it not? Right? You know, it’s like, that’s literally like, who are you? What are you experiencing? Like, you know, and so we get like, our world is so right, for just, I don’t know, a lack of a better way to the production of humans. Yeah, yeah. Right. Like, I’m gonna get up and I’m gonna go to work today, you know, now I’ve turned it into a musical, you know, and it’s like, I’m gonna work nine to five, nine to five, nine to five, right?

Andrew: Well, and even so many of our definitions of mental health are based around like, How well can you integrate yourself into this very exploitative culture that we have? It’s like, oh, you can’t like to sit at school for eight hours a day, or you can’t until you’re depressed because you have to get up and work a drudgery job every day, like, oh, there must be something wrong with you.

Sunshine: Oh, yeah, but not the system. Yeah, it’s you. And you know what I said to somebody recently, you know, I’ve got a client that is a huge supporter of the neurodiverse community and putting a lot of effort and trying to bring support for them. And I said to him, I said, I really think the neuro diverse or just the people that have woke up, right, the neurotypical or all these people that are still stuck on this fucking hamster wheel. Yeah, I’m just following. Like, oh, I’m just gonna do what society says, you know, I’m going to get a corporate job. I’m going to pay my taxes. You know, like, I’m gonna marry my wife. I’m gonna divorce my wife. I’m gonna marry my second wife. I’m going to divorce. Yeah, yeah. Like, just never questioning, never being curious. Just being on that hamster wheel of

Andrew: That really connects back to the idea Have retreats and like one of the value of it is like getting outside of your normal context and all of these forces that are always like at play in your life so that you can have more perspective on them and understand how they impact you and who you are without them.

Sunshine: Oh, my God. I mean, you are 100% correct on that, because the, you know, whether it’s whether we’re referring to like, even I think the program that we were in is still a version of like, retreating, right, returning into something else, even what you and I just went to, right, I think about all of the people that I’ve met in any of them, and the diversity in experiences and where they were coming from, yes, all of us had one thing in common, right, we were all seeking to understand. But outside of that,I don’t. I don’t know how you felt about it.


Andrew: It’s the same. Yeah, I was actually just speaking with someone about this yesterday. This was a friend of mine that I met at the medicine ceremony. But it was like talking about how at a certain point, you know, like, especially because spirituality is like, so internal and so subjective. And because there’s so many paths, like it’s almost impossible to like, really be on the exact same path as someone else. 


But then at the same time, when you get to the more mystical, esoteric parts of  any path, it all starts to become so similar and point at the same thing. And so for me, at a certain point, what I really look for, and what I really connect with in people isn’t like, the specific tools or metaphors they use, but more the sincerity, you know, like, Are you are you the reasons and your depth for engaging in your practice, whatever, whatever that may be.

Sunshine: That’s really interesting that you just said it in that way. I don’t know that I’ve ever picked it up like that. But I think that’s like spot on. Are they sincere? As to why they’re there? They’re right. Like, is it for, you know, what purpose? Is it? And I mean, yeah, I mean, interesting, because there was, like, I’m seeing one particular person at the retreat this last weekend, that kind of like, they kept having this energy that I would bump against, and it was like, this weird, right? 


And I’m thinking that’s exactly what it was, if they were there more like, how do I say this? Like? Out of curiosity, but not in like, Oh, I’m curious what this is going to bring for me, but more so like, I’m curious what this could even be and like very, and more like this, like, kind of like, critical eye on it? Yeah. So it was very, very interesting to hear you say that? Because no, I do think that that’s a big part of it.

Andrew: And that was a big part of what led me to the program that we met in is like, well, this is such a major investment that like I bet the other people who are doing it are going to be other people who are similarly serious about this, you know?



Sunshine: Yeah,I do think that that plays a big role. Right. You know, if you’re going to go and spend, you know, for for, you know, I think I think Devin and I have shared a little bit even because that’s how he and I met. You know, we were literally talking about this group of 27 folks who spent four weekends over the course of nine months together, and multiple other hours outside of those weekends. 


And yeah, the level of like, you’ve got to be, you’ve got to, like you have got to be a certain level of human like, and I don’t mean like in comparison, but like, certain place in your spiritual journey. Certainly, like willingness to have invested what we did, and I don’t mean just $1 amount when I am talking about the time Yeah. What do you think was your biggest takeaway from the Dr. Robert retreat? Like, what did you do if you were to go and compare Andrew, before and Andrew after?

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, I really do think that it goes back to that, like, specificity of understanding and like in terms of like, what what the mind is, and like, what we’re experiencing, and not like jumping to some story of it, but really understanding like the building blocks, like when he’ll give an example, that not this training, but the first training that I did with him, there was a lot about manifestation. 


And this is just an example of like, the way his understanding of the mind and how that comes into play practically, is like, say, like, you’ll hear conventional wisdom about manifestation. A lot of people say, Oh, you have to see it as already done or believe that it’s already done. And that’s true, but also at the same time, that’s a little abstract. Like what do you do with that? How do you do that? And to an NLP, there’s this idea of sub modalities. So a modality is like vision or hearing or taste. 


And so the sub modalities are like the qualities of that. So with a vision like, is it bigger than life life size or smaller brighter than daylight is a color of black and white? Is it in a frame? Are you seeing it directly? And so he had this one exercise where you have an image of a memory of something that you know did happen, that’s a positive memory. And then you allow an image to come to you that represents the thing that you’re trying to manifest being already done. 


And you, the person leading him through, it notes down the differences, like, Oh, this one’s like larger than life and in black and white, and this one’s and there will be differences, because those things are how your mind file files, files that away. And so you do some like timeline stuff, and you end up changing the qualities of the picture of the desired outcome to the qualities of the memory. And then in your, in your mind, now it’s filed as this thing actually happened.

Sunshine: It’s so interesting, because I really do hope at some point, I’ll be able to, because I’d imagine, I’d imagine he’d validate some of my own, like, thought process and in manifestation in that regard, because like, I always see them as because I open up the Akashic records. And so I always picture from a manifestation perspective, this is how I do it. Like, it’s as though it’s like a storybook, right? 


Every single thing that you ever, you know, past, present, and future. And so if you’re trying to manifest you’re basically writing and adding that chapter into that story, right? If it never, you’re, you’re basically doing that, but that it’s not just about writing that story. It’s also lighting the path up in that choose your own adventure to get you there. Right. And so like, you know, it’s like how he’s doing it in this one interesting perspective. But like, to me, it’s the same thing. Like you can’t just imagine it, you actually have to create and like activate the path to get there.

Andrew: Yeah,I mean, in a big, big way. That’s actually what the activation of the creative order that first training that I did was, was about.

Sunshine: So I’m gonna go figure out how to get myself a doctor named. Dr. Sunshine.I’ll just spell it differently.

Andrew: Right. Yeah. I mean, a big sort of  brain Buster, from this time round was realizing. Like he was saying, imagine a mouse running around in a circle, and there’s a cat and the cats chasing the mouse, and then the cat disappears. And he asked us what we saw. And it turns out, like, in order for there to be the idea of there was a cat and it’s not there anymore. 


Like, the mental image in your head will contain something that represents the cat still, because otherwise, there would just be no concept of the cat at all. So even if you’re thinking the cat is not there, in the image, there’s something like, cat not, you know, like, it’ll be loosened or there’ll be an outline or something like that. But if it just wasn’t there at all, then there wouldn’t be a concept of it being absent.

Sunshine: Like, shorting shown is that what does it say? shooting your cat? I think it’s like that theory is a little bit of is it there? Is it not? I think I think it’s similar to that kind of theory. Um, was there anything that like, really, you know, if you care to share, like struck your chord, you know, like, when we do these, you’re kind of mentioned like, sometimes there can be very intense, or there might be you might not have expected to work through but Something may come up anything particular like

Andrew: 100% I mean, that’s one of the beautiful things is like you get to notice like you get too sensitive to those moments where it’s like someone will just be like asking a question or like talking about something that doesn’t work and Dr. Robert sees a teaching opportunity and all of a sudden you’re like, deep into process I think all of us cried probably multiple times, but at least once because this is training I would

Sunshine: Imagine I had a very unexpected very unexpected we went out in he had his co regulate with nature so we walked out to this path to like this little tiny waterfall and you could hear the water and you know, it fell into this creek and you know, we’re all hanging around this creek and you know, he just the the only like kind of like rule was don’t talk right because we were there to co regulate with nature and so I sat for a while and got you know, I was like man not feel you know, my you know, cuz he was like, ask your body what it wants, you know, like I have my body wanted to get up and I sat on this big log and like, laid down and I like sat up and 


I saw some People who had pulled up their, you know, pant legs, taking their shoes off. And we’re like walking through the creek. And so I asked him, do you want to go closer to the creek and my body came back and said, Yes, it does. And I walked over and I knew I didn’t want to finagle my shoes off, but I just bent down and I put my hand in the water, and I let this cold, you know, very, very cool, because this is mountain spring water. Very cool water rushed over my hands. 


And all of a sudden, I have a memory of the last time I felt this was just over two years ago, when my partner, my ex partner that just passed away, and I went into the Smoky Mountains for my 41st birthday. And we took our shoes off, and we stuck our feet in these ice cold, frigid spring waters. And it was like, like, right there, I was taken right back. And I wasn’t expecting it and felt like, you know, this wave of tears and emotion came over me. And yeah, you know, that was a charge that had to come through, you know, that was a somatic response that needed to work its way through.

Andrew: Yeah. And there’s something about when you make space for that, or when you’re either going to be in a situation or with a group or something where you have the opportunity. These things will rise up to sort of be met, where in the past sometimes it’s almost for me, it’s been like, oh, man, like, what’s something going wrong, and all this bad stuff is coming up. But it’s just things that were already there that have the opportunity and like the means now to be seen and to be healed? And so their criminal like hey, yeah,

Sunshine: I mean, I believe in that whole, like, we don’t get what we can’t work through. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, belief. And that doesn’t mean that we’re always going to get things we want to work through. No. It may come up and you’re like, I don’t want to do that. And, you know, you probably shouldn’t keep ignoring it. If that’s the case, because goodness knows, life often will bring it back very dramatically that varies radically.


I’m curious, is there any, like, if you were to look back at whether it was Dr. Roberts retreat, or any of the other kinds of retreats that you’ve been on? Is there anything that really sticks out in them that any of them I should say, that would really stick out where like, if somebody here was listening for the first time, and they were like, I want to go, Look, I want to go find a retreat? Like what would you recommend kind of like dipping their toes into? Where would you recommend they like, start looking?

Andrew: You know, that’s a good question. Because I feel I feel like that’s like so personal, like, especially wouldn’t you were talking about like groups earlier, and like using your senses to like, feel if it’s right and create, like, I feel like, what was important for me, it was like cultivating like, that sensitivity is like in your heart of like trusting your own guidance. But I would almost say like, the one that’s in front of you, you know, the one that you’re being led to.

Sunshine: And the one that you’re being led to? I will tell you I was pretty impressed. I don’t know. I think Dr. Roberts doesn’t have a retreat center he works out of. But where we were at for Luis’s is a retreat center in upstate New York called min LA. Me en la, and I think I think their website is menlo.org. And they have all sorts of them listed. I mean, I was just drooling. I didn’t know that they’re rolling.


And I mean, Luis, like I said, he’ll be there for the fall, but like any other ones. So I would encourage like, for anybody that is interested in you’re not certain you’re like, I don’t I don’t know what I’m being led to. But this sounds like something I’d want to look into. I’d encourage starting with retreat centers. Just seeing what’s out there, seeing what you’re drawn to seeing, like what sounds interesting. I know for me, I was really, I was really really bummed because right around when I signed up for Luis, and I’m like cruising through endless sight. 


They had the gentleman that I guess coined the term death doula, Oh, wow. Offering a like, you know, kind of course and, you know, program there. I’m learning about that, and the techniques and how he teaches that and I was like, I couldn’t make it like, it was like, I think two weeks after I was, you know, scheduling and I’m like, that is not enough time for me to plan a five day vacation retreat. But that’s what I personally would recommend because I was really impressed with this selection. And it’s interesting when you go and start looking for a retreat center near me or reach like you’ll find them if they are there. There are more than you realize.

that are out there. It just takes it, you just need to start looking. 

Andrew: Yeah, that’s great advice. I’ve never thought to do that myself. Just look up local.

Sunshine: Oh my god, go look on that Menlo site, you’ll be like, I would like to go to all of these. Anyway, I mean, seriously, there were some really good ones. I don’t know. Do you remember?

Have you ever read the coma mudra. The yoga of bliss?

Andrew: No, I don’t think I’m familiar with I know

Sunshine: Is a book that was recommended by Carolyn. I can’t remember what the author’s name is, Dr. Nidra. But he’s got a longer name. So he wrote this beautiful book. He’s written a couple of other books, but he actually has a retreat there on tantric Buddhism. And menma.

Andrew: It’s interesting, the things that you can stumble across, like, there are some moments there’s almost like, surreal, like being at the Dr. Robert training, where it’s like, Alright, here I am, like, with this group of 15 people in this little like, dinky hotel, like conference room, learning amazing secrets of the universe, from this guy’s just like, you know, there are people out there, you know, with real, real mastery that aren’t like, necessarily all over the internet or, like, taken out billboards, you know.

Sunshine: oh, yeah, I mean, gentlemen, like, that has been in business so long, you know, word of mouth is his cash cow. You know, that’s how he’s generating every bit, you know, just because he’s, he’s impacted so many people’s lives, they sing, they sing his praises. Right. Um, you know, first, for those of us that are just starting it, we’ve still got a couple of years. You know, before we’re gonna have that amount of people singing the praises and being able to go to word of mouth, but yeah, it’s a, there are a lot of folks. And there are a lot of I mean, you could search for any retreats and look for any type of sub I mean, any subject you could imagine. I’m gonna give you an example here and it’s true. One of the women at Luis’s retreat, their daughter, a couple of weeks ago, I guess, at the beginning of April, was basically diagnosed with like, you know, like a trauma disorder, like, you know, having a hard time regulating their emotions, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, didn’t they were told, like, it doesn’t appear as though your daughter has the capacity that they need. And so, you know, and she might need to see a somatic therapist, and she’s like, I don’t know any of these terms. And so she likes, she just starts searching for somatic capacity, and like, a motion or something of that nature.

Andrew: Because three things you put in a magic circle to summon Louise.

Sunshine: Yeah, I should tell him that one, you might like that. Exactly. And so she stumbled across his podcast, listens, then goes back to his website and finally decides it, you know, it looks and sees that there’s one more spot available and grabs it.

Andrew: Yes. Amazing.

Sunshine: Right. You know, like, Who would have thought and I mean, she had some pretty big likes, I was, so we were so impressed, because she actually we had our, we had one of our CO regulating sessions on Saturday night, and it was the one on with touch. And by about four o’clock, she basically, you know, came and I guess, told them and said, I’m done. I’ve reached my, you know, I can’t do this anymore for tonight. But still came back the next morning and basically said, she never would have had the courage to, to even say that before. Yeah. Right? Like, she would have just toughened it up. And, like, done it. Yeah. And then miserable, and then would have experienced more trauma because of it.

Andrew: Yeah, man, this gets but this brings up something for me like around the whole like, like community versus the community versus cults. Question where it’s like, all of the best, the most inspiring in the most effective leaders that I’ve experienced, are the ones who are you know, just like the Buddha, famously, he was always saying, like, Come and see, like, Come and see, they’re not people to like, take my word for it. Or people who are telling you like, try it for yourself, one because they have that level of faith in the things that they’re teaching and because they understand deeply that like nobody gets there by having it handed to them by someone else. Like the only way is to see for yourself and to test it for yourself like and Dr. Robert all the time is saying is like please don’t take my word for it. Like the only reason I know these things is because I’ve made more mistakes, then you go out and make as many mistakes as you can.

Sunshine: Oh, yeah I mean 100% I have a buddy what I just heard is like, my guides are like So retreats basically permission to go make mistakes. That’s, I mean, yeah, like to be in a place where it’s okay to try something new, learn something new, fail at something new. Figure out if you wanted to stick around or not?because that’s what I always say, like you can pick up a book, you can take an online course, you can watch a bunch of masterclass videos, you can follow around in a chat room, you could go join some Facebook groups, you could be in some online computed, but there is nothing that can ever compare to a literal in person, time delegated. Distractions removed, right, like, if you’re lucky, like, I know, some people just really struggle with that, you know, their lives do not allow it, but like, most folks that would be able to participate in retreats are going to be providing themselves a distraction free environment.

Andrew: And that also connects back to the like the community power, or like the, you know, there’s something that like the transmission like that comes through, it’s not just the it’s not just the content, you know, it’s really like the the means and like the energy and just being in that environment. And there’s a lot to be said for that. Do you know Sadhguru?

Sunshine: It sounds familiar.

Andrew: He’s like an Indian mystic with a big online presence. And his big thing is Inner Engineering. And he has an online course for that that I did a few years ago. And then you can come and do the like in person completion where you’re like, initiated into this yogic practice. One of his videos online, where he’s like talking about the, the initiation program, and someone’s like, people’s use, like people say to me all the time, they’re like, Sadhguru, I’ve seen all your videos, I’ve read all of your books, like, do I really need to take Inner Engineering? And he’s like, that’s like going to a restaurant and being like, you know, I’ve read the whole menu. I understand. I get it. Do I really have to eat?

Sunshine: I love that. Yeah. I mean, like, even you know, it’s just yeah, there’s just something about immersion. There’s something about the like, practical application, there’s something about like safe spaces, comfortable spaces, reserved spaces, however you want to describe it, where you can, like, just be immersed in whatever it is that you’re learning or trying to like, flex I just, I can’t I will say I, you know, my my workaholic self, did not give myself a lot of time in the past, do anything of this nature. But you better damn well believe as I reevaluate my budget here in the next month or so trying to make some big moves. I’m going to have some dollars set aside for retreats every year.

Andrew: Also being in the business that you’re in. I feel like those are all right off.

Sunshine: They are Yeah. I mean, yes, I lucked out in that way. I guess the only kind of retreats that wouldn’t be would be like the fitness boot camp ones. But yes, I do benefit but I know, it’s still a matter of like, what however you want to look at a budget, you’re still allocating towards personal or business. I want to go find my next one. That’s the question. That’s what I’m wondering, do you have anything in the works? Do you have anything that you’re, I know, you say you’re traveling to Ireland, and that’s all just fun, play nothing plan, you have any. 


Andrew: I’m like 90% of the way towards signing up for another medicine ceremony out in Guatemala, that has sort of like a retreat format to it. I’ve sort of I’ve made made sort of a rule for myself, where it’s like, finish finish the thing you’re doing before, like, I mean, sometimes I’ll plan like one ahead, but then it gets to a certain point where it’s like, oh, God, I don’t want to do all this traveling. You know, that’s because you’re in the middle of traveling to one thing right now and you’re living in the you know, it’s like this, get home, rest and then see.

Sunshine: yeah, um, I’ve seen some of those. I did what I think I did what you’re putting down on that because I’ve seen where some of the Ayahuasca ceremonies will be like, these week or 10 day long, kind of like, very intentional, you know, as far as part like multiple ceremonies. 

Andrew: Exactly. Yeah.The one I just went to was to was two nights, but this this one in Guatemala would be a longer one and there’s also like sweat lodges and some circles and an artist seems like a really beautiful

Sunshine: No that I mean, that absolutely does. I would love it if you’d even drop the No, I have a friend that promised that they would treat me to one of these lovely trips one day. So you know, I would love it if you dropped which one because they always hurt her and I’ve always been kind of looking for various different options for it.

Andrew: Yeah, I had, I feel like I had a similar thing with you. It’s like I’ve known about it since I was 18. Like, I went down to Ecuador with a friend and another friend who was from there. And that was part of what we wanted to do while we were down there. And it didn’t end up working out that time. But it’s been on my radar since I was 18. I was like, this is going to be a part of my journey at some point. And then it took me all the way up until almost 31 to find like this, they crossed my path in an aligned way that I trusted, you know,

Sunshine: No, that’s perfect man. And that’s kind of the way that I’ve looked at it is when the time is meant it’ll easily present itself. You know, I’ve I know that there are some things that are not going to be what you like, when you’re on this path, and you’ve gone far down into it. And you know, you have some deep spiritual practices you’re already on but you’re like, used to uncovering and so my question where I’ve always kind of asked, and even like when I do, you know, just I’m still doing like a psychedelic. I use psychedelics for a somatic therapy type of practice, right? I use it like a physical body purge. And so like, even then, like, I’ll even ask, like, please show me something that I am blind to. Yeah. Right. Because like, there are things that we just have buried within our subconscious, whether it’s from this lifetime, or lifetimes ago, that could still, you know, it’s like, what’s your limiting belief? It’s like, I don’t have any limiting beliefs. But it’s like, no, you’ve got something buried. It’s like six feet under, it’s in a leaden box. 

Andrew: You know, as for my experience, when I was out there, like, you know, I’m a dedicated psychonaut. And I’ve put myself through many extreme experiences in the search for wisdom, and understanding. But while I was out there, the first night of the first ceremony, like, you know, a big part of why I was going out there was for healing from my own healing journey. And like, as soon as the medicine, it’s like, Not long into it, I start feeling like, some of the physical symptoms associated with that. And then all of a sudden, I’m just, like, spiraling into this, like a whole thing where, like, all that I was hearing was, the medicine can’t help you. Nothing can. So that was like, very intense at the time. You know, I’m like, really destabilizing, especially that’s a bit of like, fortunately, you know, I’ve done enough work to understand like, that wasn’t like, God, you know, that was my mind. And what was happening was, I was coming face to face with, like, my own negative limiting attitude, like, in full force, so that I couldn’t do it anymore.

Sunshine: Yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s, you know, that’s the thing, like we often, especially when any of us are trying to go through transition in our life, you know, trying to create a different life crying, trying to create a different path, a different future, which I think most folks on a spiritual journey. That’s, I think that’s part of it. Right? you start to know, you’re coming from maybe a place where you are experiencing more sorrow or sadness on a regular basis, and you want more hope and joy, right, even as simple as that, that requires transformation that requires change. So those of us that are on a spiritual journey, like we want to see those things that are holding us back. You know, I think that’s beautiful you had that opportunity to have shown to you. You know, because sometimes we don’t realize it’s there. I mean, we just don’t realize it was there. Well, Andrew, I don’t know if you’ve anything else. I know you’ve got all sorts of other endeavors. I don’t know if you’ve got anything that you are working on. Once again, these episodes won’t go out until October 2023. This is about five. So this will probably be in November. So I don’t know if you’ve got anything that you would like to share with any of our listeners, anybody that’s listened to this at any point?

Andrew: Sure. Well, I think at that point, my album should almost certainly be done and out in the world. So you can find me on Instagram at splashy underscore songs. And that’s, that’s probably the best place to keep apprised of updates on that. I also already have stuff out there such as the floating perspectives, which is my band, and the common practice, which is another group that I play with. So all of that should be out in the world for your listening pleasure anywhere that music is streamed.

Sunshine: That’s very awesome. Yes, Andrew is a very talented artist and musician and we have been blessed by many of us that are kind of in our little spiritual circle to hear him up. personally in person and even, you know, the beautiful song that you wrote in the Rose Garden.

Andrew: Yeah, very directly inspired by what you wrote in the dream book.

Sunshine: Yes. So, I absolutely love it, I would encourage anybody to check Andrew out. And, and I just, you know, I want to reflect again, like we have all sorts of different people that are going to be on here, everyone has a different path. Everyone has their different place that they’ve come from. So, you know, here all we are trying to do is to encourage you to find your path, to follow your path and to follow it into your own deepest spirituality. So with that being said, I am going to go ahead and wrap it up. Everybody has an absolutely blessed rest of your day with whatever you are doing. And just again in the next episode, take care folks.


Get to know the co-hosts Sunshine and Devin

Rev. Devin Ryback, also known as The Mindful Mage, is a Personal Coach and Certified Hypnotherapist who helps people awaken their true magick and create powerful personal connections with the Divine in all things. Combining mindfulness, hypnosis, and over a decade of spiritual practice and experience, Devin shows up as a wise guide on the healing path for all who seek to know and be who they really are. Learn more at TheMindfulMage.com.

Sunshine is a Psychic Medium, Soul Healer, Spiritual Advisor, High Priestess, Reiki Master, Recovering Alcoholic and founder of Sunshine Readings. Her passion is helping others learn how to step into their shadows so they can uncover their own magick and psychic gifts needed to remove any energetic blocks to their soul’s enlightenment. She is the Creatrix of Illuminate, The Unschool of Witchcraft. This transformational program includes Sunshine’s divine-inspired gifts in 7 different monthly workshops and 1:1 access to her. In addition to owning and operating Sunshine Readings, Sunshine is also an award-winning software product manager and business operations expert that is helping corporations revolutionize their internal structure and processes to adopt a more innovative culture. In her spare time, you will find Sunshine dancing, cooking, painting, and hanging out with her five kitties in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan.

 “Only when we know our own darkness can we sit in the darkness with others.” – Pema Chodron

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