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Deepest Spirituality Podcast Season 1 Episode 4: Making a Living From Asking “Why” with Melanie Hill

Melanie is a Human Design Expert, Guide, Coach, 3/5 Manifesting Generator, ADHD Rebel, & Heart-Led Business Leader.

Over the past 2 years she’s guided some of the biggest game-changers in the world to Hack their Human Design in their lives & businesses.

➡ Parents, Therapists, Artists, Surgeons, Coaches, CEO’s, Educators, Industry Disruptors, Revolutionaries, Social Workers, Physicians, Podcasters…. AND SO MANY MORE!!


The part of this work that makes her the most excited is the moment when she sees her clients shift to seeing themselves with power and love and become absolutely obsessed with themselves.


  • Then they get to keep on going and build their business that is going to change the world.
  • They no longer have to contemplate quitting or dividing their energy between that other job and what they love doing.
  • Their self-doubt turns into sexy self-confidence. 

And this is what creates the certainty they were looking for. 

The kind of certainty that lives inside of WHO THEY ARE, not whatever strategy or tactic someone is trying to teach them. 

And that is what creates a life you love showing up to.



Welcome, dear souls, to a realm of infinite possibilities. Whether this is your first encounter with our podcast or you’ve been following our journey from the beginning, we’re thrilled to have you here. But hold on tight, my friends, for this episode will introduce you to a fascinating new soul – Melanie Hill.

But before we dive into the depths of Melanie’s spirituality, let’s take a moment to acknowledge the wealth of wisdom that awaits you in our previous episodes. If you’re new to our podcast, don’t fret! Go back and explore the first three episodes, where Devin and I unravel our own stories, revealing the essence of our beings. Trust me, it’s a treasure trove you won’t want to miss.

Now, my fellow seekers, it is time. Join us as we delve into the depths of Melanie’s spiritual awakening. Explore the tapestry of her experiences, woven with threads of self-discovery, growth, and divine connection. Prepare yourselves for an intimate conversation that will inspire you to embark on your own sacred journey.

Are you ready to unleash the healer within, to awaken the dormant spark of divinity that resides in your soul? Come, join us as we unravel the mysteries of spirituality and forge a path towards inner liberation.

Sunshine: All right, folks, welcome back to the Deepest Spirituality podcast. We are on episode four. That today with our very first guest, so I’m really excited about that. Once again, you have Sunshine, the pink-haired psychic medium.

Devin: Devin, the mindful mage.

Sunshine: If you happen to be listening to this, like, this is your first podcast that you’re stumbling across where your first video or wherever you’re finding this, this is not the only one that exists, you’re gonna want to go find some more of them. As a matter of fact, if you want to find out more about myself, Devon, kind of our story, go back to the very first three episodes. And that’s gonna give you a whole plethora of information about us. But we’re really excited today to welcome Melanie Hill here, Texas, right, Melanie?

Melanie: Yeah, I’m in Texas,

Sunshine: In Texas, really excited, we’re gonna give you the opportunity to get to know Melanie a bit, exploring her deepest spirituality. And before we go there, this is something that we’re going to be doing every episode. So get ready, my dear friends, we’re handing this over to Devin. And he’s gonna do a little ritual to make sure we’re all ready and set for today’s episode. Devin, take it away. 

Devin: All right. So this is a practice that came to me about two years ago. And it is a technique for connecting to your higher self and connecting our higher selves together. So wherever you are, I invite you to have a seat. Sit comfortably, take a few deep breaths in and out at your own pace, maybe let off a little steam, give a big sigh and heal your body supported by the surface beneath you.

And I invite you to imagine high above, almost higher than you can imagine a star, notice the color of this star and the size of this star and maybe even the sound of this star and notice how you feel having noticed this star. And realize now that this star is a manifestation of your higher self in this moment and now imagine a brilliant beam of light shining down from the star directly down into the crown of your head down the back of the neck through the spinal column all the way to the tip of the tailbone.

Imagine being filled up by this higher cell starlight and that energy expands from that central column out to the rest of your body through all the nerves and the muscles and the bones fully connecting you to your higher self now and bringing your awareness back up to this star. I’d like you to imagine another star noticing the size and the color and the sound that star is my higher self and notice also another star Sunshines higher self and another star Melanie’s higher self.

And now zooming out even further, you can see a whole cosmos of higher self stars. And as I count to three, imagine the same kind of brilliant chord of cosmic light, connecting all of these stars together.

1,2,3 feeling that interconnection and if you feel so called to do so, you can say aloud. our higher selves are now connected. Our higher selves are now connected. And whenever you feel ready to do so, take a deep breath and gently return to this present moment, eyes open.

Sunshine: Buddy, I don’t know about you. That is intense.

Devin: I really like that one.

Sunshine: Oh, I hope that everybody that’s listening or watching, you feel that too, because my god, I mean, that is a belief that I have it is a universal law that we’re all connected. And if you didn’t just feel it right now, wait, it’s gonna happen. At some point. You’re gonna be dreaming later on tonight. And all of a sudden, you’re gonna see all of that and know and feel that connection. So Wow. Devon. Beautiful. Thank you. 

Devin: It’s my pleasure.

Sunshine: Oh Melanie, this is you, I would love to hear and have you share a bit with us and the listeners a little bit about yourself. And I mean, like, I’m really going to enjoy this because I want to be able to legitimately feel the way that you feel about yourself and what you’re doing. So please go ahead. The floor is yours, my dear.

Melanie: I’m like, what’s the word like vibrating now? But like electricity, I love it. So I’m, like, completely lit up. Yeah. So I’m Melanie. Hello, everyone. I’m super excited to be here. I live in the world of human design, and Gene keys and just human energy. And that’s what I do. I really help people connect with who they are in the physical 3d. But to me is a very spiritual journey, as well. So I really help people make their businesses a sole expression of who they

are. And that’s a little bit about what I do. Yeah.

Sunshine: I love it. Yeah. So, you know, I’d mentioned as we were kind of warming up for the show that you have been poking around and you know, kind of touching base with me for a little I think over a year now, which I adore and absolutely love. I was excited to see you say that you wanted to be on here because you said you were one of those folks that loves to ask why?

So I’m really curious. Melanie, if you can share with us what’s that deepest Why? What’s the deepest that you’ve gone? What’s the craziest? You’ve maybe made someone because you just keep going and exploring? What is that? Where’s that sit? 

Melanie: Yeah. I’ve been trying to think about this. And she opened up with that question, and I know, it is my favorite question. And it’s like, well, what’s the deepest? Why? And I don’t mean, the deepest that seems like a lot of pressure. Right? Like what’s the biggest one. And I really see the question why as just this ever expanding and deepening of the mystery. And, you know, to me, when I see it like that, it really helps me actually go deeper.

Because if I am really really trying to find the one ultimate “Why” I find myself get really blocked. I get really stuck on all the details of it. Right? And that’s, that probably is like my past when I really annoy people with like asking why 1000 times. And I’m like, because I need to know the exact answer right? But yeah, I mean, for me, probably the most innate “Why” that I have had and I think was really kind of born with was Why isn’t the spiritual physical? Like why is there this separation? Why is God not physically here in front me giving me a hug, right? 

Sunshine: Oh, yeah, that’s that,  I’m loving that like- Why is it? My goodness, I’m actually going to have to ask my guides a little bit about why this is in there. They’re amusing because they’re like that. That wouldn’t give you any mystery. There would be no mystery, right? What fun exploring the depths of what’s possible if everything was just sitting right in front of you that you could see. And you had proof of that? Yeah. Yeah, there wouldn’t be No, why there would be no “Why” there would just be what is?

Melanie: Yeah.

Devin: It was funny, though, that, like, that question that you asked. I feel a deep part of me. Probably a younger part of me getting really pissed off, like asking that question to like, why

what I can feel just beyond this veil of materiality, I can feel the presence of the Divine. So why aren’t you just like, embracing me right now? Can’t you see how much I struggle?

Sunshine: Yeah, that’s interesting. Because what pops into my head with that is, right, I mean, and now you start to get you start to get into that, like, depth of things is what you see versus what you touch. Right? Like, can you not see God? With everything in front of you? Can you not see it? You know, him in the trees and the plants? In you know, in you, Devin and you melt? Can you not see that? Right? Is the question more so like, around the feeling and the needing the feeling of proof?

Melanie: Right. Of course, I you know, for me, I love that. Devin brought up the younger part of you because it was definitely born from this. Probably like, I don’t know. 10,11,12 Pardon me, I

think where like, I felt this deep. Loneliness. To be honest, it’s inside of me. And just this desire to, to find that more physical thing, you know, you can hold on to and see and experience and you know, I think a lot of this has roots in like, religion as well, for me, like the whole thing that you’re taught that God Spirit is like a person almost right? 

I never understood how that could be true. And honestly, what it has brought me to is just so much of finding God in everything, like you said, sunshine, right? Like, in the earth it like I was taking a walk today in this beautiful park. And I’m just like, I just can’t believe I used to wonder where God was. It’s literally holding me, literally all around me. And that’s been the coolest part of this question is that

the answer? Is everywhere.

Sunshine: I love that. You mentioned that loneliness thing, right? Because we’ve talked about when we started, you know, thinking about creating the podcast and having these conversations that loneliness was a piece that we talked about that like when you’re on your spiritual journey, or you’re ready to start or even if you don’t even realize that it’s a spiritual calling, is this place of loneliness, it’s this feeling of loneliness, right? Where it doesn’t matter who you are around, right? It doesn’t matter, like the folks that are with you, you can have the most wonderful, beautifully loving family and friends, and still feel that feel that loneliness, because you have a calling to step on your spiritual path. Right. So I love that you call that out because part of what we hope is that this podcast reaches folks that are in their journey. Some may be starting some may be very far but knowing and understanding that that is a very common feeling.

feel lonely, right?

It’s very common. I’m curious, there wasn’t one that asked but there, you know, my guides are kind of saying, you know, when you felt that loneliness as a child, Melanie, what happened with that? Right, because I know what loneliness did for me as a child. I’m curious, what did it do for you as a



Melanie: That’s a good question. I mean, honestly, what it took me towards a lot of relationships that probably weren’t the best for me. Right To be honest, really trying to feel that loneliness

with other people, other things, experiences and I think I mean, I was probably honestly looking in the right place, you know, experience people, right? I mean, God is literally and everything. But the one place that really didn’t take me super deep was inside of myself yet. Right, as a younger person, it was very much.

 And I think that’s what the inner child needs, right is really something outside of you, to tell you to show you to guide you right to be the mirror for you. It’s not until I think we have a more adult version of ourselves that we can do that for ourselves. So, you know, for me, it really took me to a lot of different relationships, and, you know, feeling more lonely, too. Yeah.

Sunshine: When you keep trying to search for those answers externally, as we’re kind of talking about right, where is God? Why can I not see him feel him touch him externally? Why is that right? It leads you down this other path of just continued loneliness, you know, to me, it was very much like the loneliness, I was feeling I was turning off parts of myself to that. I was like, Oh, well, that doesn’t get me the love I actually want. 

So I’m going to kind of put that part away and that part away, and that is a different level of loneliness. I think that a lot of people are probably feeling right now. I mean, that being your true self, puts you in a very lonely place as well. Because now you’ve got loneliness as well as despair. That being who you are.

Devin, I’m curious, because we’ve talked a bit about what’s popping into my head is I keep seeing the picture of you in the woods. You know, and so like, once again, loneliness. I’m curious if you’d like to share anything that’s popping up with you around that of how that played a role in your spiritual journey in the beginning? 

Devin: Well, the first thing that comes to mind is kind of a, it feels like an invitation to share how grateful I am that I, in this moment, have the perspective that I do. Like Melanie said, now that I have this pool of resources that I can draw from, I can literally travel back in time, and talk to my younger self, and say, Well, I know it really sucks right now. And I’m not trying to tell you that it doesn’t suck. I know I’m you. But it’s really worth it. 

And so it’s almost hard to separate the loneliness from the gratitude that I feel now. Because I know that’s what got me here. It’s like, it really was an invitation, an invitation to not hang out with my friends that day. And instead just go like, play on this rock in my favorite spot in the woods behind my house, just sit there and watch the birds and like, eventually, some deer would walk by and I just feel like whoa, that’s wild. And real calling to go deeper into myself and deeper into these parts of my external reality that seemingly no one else was really that interested in. No one else was saying like, Hey, you want to go chill out in the woods for like hours and not say a word? 

Sunshine: Sounds lovely. Sounds lovely. Yeah, yeah. I’m thinking about loneliness. For me as a child, I spent a lot of time reading. It’s been a lot of time in my head, daydreaming and things of that nature. And it’s, um, you know, Melanie, I find it interesting where you say, like, you didn’t really do that introspective. That was my default.

Melanie: When other people are talking, I’m like, thinking about how many hours I spent with music. And like, you know, riding my bike through the woods, like alone, desperately wanting to be alone. And yeah, so I mean, there definitely, definitely Was that too. Yeah. Music was I think my first probably spiritual tool.

Sunshine: Yeah, I love that you say that music was your first spiritual tool, for me it was my imagination. Right? My first spiritual books could take me to every other world but I’m curious, and we’re gonna get a little bit into this, because you’ve mentioned human design as you were introducing yourself. For anybody that’s not familiar there, you know, they give you an archetype in this design. And so I’m a heretic hermit. Right? So I innately like my default state is always looking inward, right? So if we think about the tarot card, the hermit, like, always reflecting inward, which to that point is that it can be a detriment sometimes.

 So when I was a child, and lonely and always constantly looking within the very unfortunate truth of that, is I started to place blame on myself, for the things that were happening around me. Not being given all of the tools that we now have is like, somewhat healthier adults. Somewhat healthier adults. So it was really hard doing that retro, that deep introspective, especially with that imagination, you know, my spiritual tool. And playing all these scenarios out of how I could have done things differently. To have not had to experience or witness that. 

So yeah, my loneliness as a child was a bit of a, you say, Melanie was got you into some people that you maybe shouldn’t have hung out with? Mine actually got me more so of personally punishing myself. That’s where my loneliness led. I know you guys both know, I’m a recovering alcoholic, but they state that in recovery, one of your biggest things to avoid is isolation. Because it’s a very quick step towards finding yourself right back into a relapse. 

You made a comment in your notes that you shared for the show that you make a living, Melanie, out of asking Why? Do you like to share? 

Melanie: I mean, ultimately, my journey of Why has brought me to this place where I get to use human design, and I get to help other people understand why as well, why do they do what they do? Why are they continuing to repeat the same things over and over again, and they’re still just so burnt out and tired? And all of those things? I’ve found a place for like, why is a strength? Not something that just annoy people all the time? You know? 

I always think of that, because I just used to ask, why incessantly, and people would get so tired of me. And I just never really understood why they didn’t need the context either. Why would you not need? Like, there’s another Why, right? Why would you not need to know why it’s so important. And yeah, so you know, my talking about human design, part of it is the incarnation cross. And for me, mine is called the right angle cross of tension. I’m literally here to hold tension on the world, people around me, all those things. And I think asking Why is a big part of that. 

When you hold tension on people and things, it helps them mutate and grow. That’s kind of the whole purpose. And I think I had a really hard time learning that about myself. But that really has been, I think, why I ask why all the time. And what it really is here for is to help people understand that.

They’re so obsessed with the how, because they want to get it right. But the real question that they really want to ask is why? And playing in that space of why and the deepening of the mystery that’s just ongoing forever is really, I think, where these people want to play. And so it just gives them a lot of permission

to go there.

Sunshine: Word. Why is a lot more motivating than How. You can help me understand why we’ll figure out a way it doesn’t matter how

Melanie: Yeah, and I think people really they want it they want the Hows because they think that when they get to whatever the outside goal is, like, you know, the business that’s fully booked the you know, billion dollars the family that looks just like you know, perfect then then they’ll be able to find that deep satisfaction, then they won’t be lonely anymore. Right then they’ll be able to live their life and be satisfied.

Devin: Mind trap. 

Melanie: Totally a mind thing and so they keep buying into those things, but it’s just so Indi right without the why it is very empty. Like there’s just no context. There’s no warmth. There’s no connection. None of that good, juicy stuff that we love.

Sunshine: The robot. Yeah, you’re just a machine, right? I mean, I think Pink Floyd. That’s what’s popping into my head. Anybody? Are you a Pink Floyd fan, Melanie? Because I’m here like the machine made. That might be why they’re putting music because I know you said you connect to your spirituality musically. I’m like, I’m hearing literally, the one song Welcome to the machine.Yeah, that’s in my head right now. Yeah. Without a why you’ve just become a machine. I mean, that’s the you know, Henry Ford built the production line. You didn’t need to know why you just need to know what you needed to plug into it. Yeah. Devin, you made a comment about a mind trap? I’m curious, just in case anybody caught that? What do you mean by that? What is this mind trap?

Devin: Well, honestly, and I think as this podcast progresses, and evolves more my perspective on what the mind actually is, and how to really use it to its full capacity, will become more clear. But for now, what I’ll say is, we’ve all received really poor programming, our minds have been very poorly programmed. And convinced that its job is to figure out the how, that’s not the job of the mind, the job of the mind is to see, to see and create visionary experiences, and to like, guide the electromagnet compass of the heart, toward the desire by continually seeing what it could look like without expectation.

We’ve been taught that like, just a side note, we have conflated logic, with reason. Do you know what the etymology of the word reason is? Reason comes from the razon. CORAZON means hearts. And a lot of romantic languages. So the reason is the why not the how. And so this logical system is the how that we like, the reason is, it is the reservoir, the logic is the aqueduct, they can’t work harmoniously together. But we have not learned how to use our minds in a way other than to try to figure it out. crunching numbers and logical pathways and like, filling, it’s not-

Melanie: Can I jump in here, I love what you just said, you said it so eloquently. Like, that’s the whole reason why human science spoke to me is because it was a way to really get our brain to understand what our heart has been trying to tell us for so long. And to get our brain onboard with our body. Like, the brain needs a language to understand what’s happening. And if we don’t have that language, our brain is going to keep trying to hijack us and run the show and figure out the how, like you’ve been saying, right, but our heart wants to lead so badly. 

And there has to be this level of safety, we have to create right between the mind and the body to be able to let your heart lead. And I think that’s the program we weren’t we weren’t taught, right. And so I think this is kind of like I call it a bridge. Sometimes I call it like a secret language where all of a sudden, it’s like this permission slip for your brain to kind of go Oh, like relax a little bit and you can hear the language of your heart. For the first time.

Sunshine: My guides just kind of screamed at me not only not taught,

counter,  about so-

Devin: We really want to go there. We’ll go there. 

Sunshine: Many, many, you know, I mean, this is this is a spiritual podcast, like let’s be real, like, our art normal society, especially in Western culture. You might, there might be some other costs, but it just does not ingrain these spiritual beliefs right into the actual children and like as you grow, you know, it’s just not a natural there are I’m not saying that there are not cultures that are beautiful at it. There are some that are very beautiful at it, but it’s just, we’re ingrained with like, you go to school, and you listen and you do as you’re told, and this is how school is and you don’t question it and then from you know, middle school to high school to high school to college. And then and so like, your entire mission.

Devin: And here’s how you think about God. And this is what God is. And this is, this is what God is.

Sunshine: Yes, everything is subscribed or prescribed to us. This is what the you know, enlightenment or the you know, being awakened, requires you to shine literally the picture that they’re showing me right now is a big gigantic dog shaking off like every bit of like garbage and gunk and mud that he could write and realizing, Oh, my God, oh, my goodness, oh, myself.

Devin: I’m not even a dog. Yeah.

Sunshine: Whatever I want, I get to define this, I get to create this, I get to shape my own identity, right? All of that kind of stuff and every individual in life, hopefully, right, we know there’s some that’ll still struggle is going to have that opportunity to do that shake and to find and to and to recognize. 

Devin: So I’m learning this podcast is that opportunity.

Sunshine: That could be I love that. I love that I might go find other episodes. There’s other things if this is your first one that you will absolutely love. Melanie, I don’t ever want to assume that folks that are listening are going to know everything that we talked about. And so we’ve been talking a little bit about human design. Can you help folks understand? And Devin and I are familiar with it. Why does Human Design help you answer the why? What is it about it that’s really giving you that kind of clarity for an individual?

Melanie: So Human Design is a synthesis of like, so many different systems that exist in the world from astrology, right, the Hindu chakra system, the Kabbalah, I mean, just just so many things, and even quantum science and so so many things put together. And so it gives you an overall understanding of, you know, from a body graph perspective, like it literally has this thing shaped as a body with these nine centers inside of it. And each center has a specific energy. And then there’s an overall energy archetype that you hold. And it has a specific strategy, which is such a great word for the brain, right? So it really helps, I think, just combine all the energies inside of you that might be fighting with each other right now. And helps you just release whatever it is, it’s holding you back from just expressing the fullness of who you are.

In a way that’s very, very quick. So, you know, I just think it’s helpful to break down these things in this way, where there’s actually like a map of sorts, you know, none of us are born with a map, and, but we really desperately want one, right, our brain is looking for one. And so this has just been a tool that’s been gifted to us that ‘s kind of like, Hey, here’s your map, like this will tell you everything you need to know and you’ve always wanted to know. And if you study it long enough, you can really find so much peace and joy and all the things you really want. But I just think it’s a great tool, it really helps you understand maybe why you have the same struggles over and over again. Right? Why you in particular, you know, feel things so deeply and are an empath, right and just never understood that why you feel so much pressure when you’re around certain people. 

You know why you can’t get out of your head? Just, I mean, answers why so much. That’s probably why I fell in love with it. And, you know, having that context just helps you relax and open up and explore the things that you were really, really afraid to look at before. Right? I think human design is Shadow Work at its best. And helps you fully integrate all of yourself, which to me really is like the most spiritual journey of all. And I have no idea. I feel like it went on left field there for a minute with your question.

Sunshine: I love it. You know, this is just in case anybody is hearing about human design, you can definitely go do a search for it. But I like what I painted in my head and I’ll share this is right. There is this and the reason why I love that you called out the quantum like physics like the quantum sciences too, right? So like quantum science or physics is going to really ingrain us in this concept of how energy exists. How you know energy never really you know, you know, it doesn’t cease to exist. It just changes form how energy moves, how energy interacts and all of that kind of stuff. So you’ve got that concept of energy. And then what kind of painted is like if you think about the astrological concept of it, right? So it does look at all of, you know, the same way you pull a natal chart, right? Your birth, all of that kind of lovely stuff. So you see, like that universal energy, what did the universe the cosmos look like at the point of birth? And how is that influencing your your life as well as the current cosmos and how it influences same thing, if folks, we’re going to look into their astrological charts, depending upon what astrological belief you want to look at? And then you talked about the, the chakras, right? So now the human energy, right, when the soul itself actually meets it and connects into the physical body, you now have that humanistic energy, right? And so that’s how I’ve kind of understood it. It’s all there’s all sorts of other layers to it. But those two big components. Now, to your point, give you this like blueprint. Yeah. This understanding of, of the cosmos, the universal energy, how it’s impacting and influencing your actual human energetic system. And then, you know, that little lovely science piece, you know, science, I guess, right? Science is just magic in another another? Totally. Yeah, I just, I thought I wanted to help you out. When do you have any questions? Because I know you’re, I’m a little bit more familiar. You’re kind of new. Any questions that you have around that? Why? Why human design? Kind of answers it?

Devin: Well, the first comment, and that is that I really appreciate Melanie, how you are talking about this thing as the brain and not the mind. Because I think that’s one misconception that we have, we think the mind is up here. But no, that’s the brain. This is the heart, can’t see. But my gut as well. Like these are three major bundles of neurons, which are capable of actual thought, yes or not, we’re not accustomed to thinking about or sensing the heart thinking like the heart literally thinks the gut and literally thinks we just are more familiar with what it feels like for the brain to think. So. Really appreciate that distinction. All together, it’s the mind.

Melanie: Yeah. Sorry to cut you off. But like in human design, there’s a particular center inside of you, that is not the mind or the head, that is called your authority. It’s part of the things I love so much about it is it teaches you how to interact with that consciousness inside of you. And get to know that part that is talking to you, that’s probably a lot more connected to spirit to actually what you’re here to do and want. And not just all the thoughts in the brain and all of that part. So love that you brought that up. 



Devin: Let’s see questions. I mean, I kind of don’t even know where to start. Anytime I’m faced with some kind of system for understanding the celestial bodies, or, you know, the human energy centers or anything like that I, some part of me, maybe it’s explained in my design, I’m not sure, I think Shannon would kind of go like this. She’s told me so much about my design by now I should know, really. But yeah, maybe it’s somewhere in there. I just find, for whatever reason, my focus goes away from those seemingly external ways of understanding what’s happening. And I just say, Well, let me just sit and just be with myself and notice what’s happening, which I think systems like human design, and astrology, ultimately, are pointing in that direction anyway, it’s just a mirror. So I’m just curious and interested to know and converse about any and all aspects of human design. So.

Sunshine: I love that you’re kind of calling that out because it’s a good reflection right for us, but also for anybody listening about all of us are different, like literally human design will even tell you that they’re we’re all unique. We all have our own different design. Right? I we have a mutual friend Melanie by the name of Shannon, that studies human design. So we both talked to her about it. And so I think maybe I’ve shared this with you, but I’m fascinated with it because her and I will actually talk about how I can read it all. I get it all like all of that like and then and she said actually can see the same thing in someone’s actual body graph in their chart. Yeah. So it’s like really like, you know, Devin to your point, you just you don’t need that tool. You don’t need that tool because you have some other connection that helps you answer, right. But some people need the tool, they have this deep questioning of why, right? So you have this literal context that your shared Melanie that gives you these answers. And now you actually have a tool that you can help other people see it, too.

Melanie: Yeah. And that’s what I tell people all the time. Like, you don’t need human design. Nobody needs human design. Nobody needs any tool. Like you really can find this out in yourself, just like Devin does, like you literally can it’s nobody needs this. This is not, you know, it’s not a religion, that’s for sure. It’s not a dogma, it’s not anything like that. And I definitely don’t use it in that way. And so I just I love you saying that it’s so so good. And I think anytime we put that kind of like, we put a system like that on a pedestal saying this is the thing, then we really lose sight of what we’re after. And then we cling to it, and we put ourselves in a box. And that’s definitely not at all. What I don’t think any tool is really meant for that. I think that’s what humans love to do. Those kinds of systems and things.

Devin: That sounds exactly like what we do with the relationships, our lives. I think this actually brings me back to a note I made about loneliness before. It’s like instead of clinging to this person out there, I might cling to astrology to make sure that I’m doing the right thing based on what the astrologer is like, No way, way way. That’s not how we use that thing. So yeah, this, it seems like that invitation of loneliness, in a way, the ultimate medicine of it. Because have you heard this, this idea that? You don’t you really, it’s like you don’t really feel lonely as much when you’re alone? Yeah. Or you feel it far greater when you’re actually around other people. And it’s like, why can’t I interface with these external beings right now, what’s happening. 

So I think that’s sort of what we can do as humans with all of these systems that other humans have either created or channeled, or somehow. But ultimately, the loneliness is an invitation to actually be alone, ironically. So they’ll just be in that solitude. And when we’re there for long enough with enough sincerity, that’s when something appears, because I waited for myself long enough to actually show up, it’s like WOAH. And then instead of trying to fill that hole, that void that I feel from the outside in, it’s an outpouring, it’s, it’s filled from the inside out, which is the only way we can fill that void. We’ll talk about addiction another time. But I think that is very connected to what we’re talking about here. 

Sunshine: Yeah, I would agree with that. We, it’s weird that you like pinpointed on kind of that loneliness. And you know, I could start to see and feel some of that, you know, disconnection, because when we are around people, that we can’t be ourselves that we can’t, you know, express ourselves that we don’t feel safe. Like, Melanie, you when you stated like this need for safety, right? It’s really, really hard, you could be in a room of 1000 people, and they could all want to love you. But if they loved some persona, that was not who you really were, you would still feel lonely.

Melanie: And that’s I think human design can help you do is love who you really are, in a way that just like, gives you so much permission instantly. Because it’s like, there’s proof in a way, you know, and like, of course, everyone can find that on their own. You know, but I think tools like this can just be super helpful, like astrology, like, oh, it’s not my fault that I always want to do that thing. That’s just who I actually am. 

And how can I celebrate that part of me now? And so that’s the true loneliness, I think we feel is the fact that we’ve been denying parts of ourselves for so long, that really just want our love, right and attention. And we’re asking these other people outside of us to give that to us. And they can’t, right, whether they just because they don’t want to, or you know, any of those reasons. But yeah.

Sunshine: It definitely starts you know, it’s reminding me of, I respond to some Reddit comments on it. I on a regular basis, and there was one that came up recently around the heart chakra. And, you know, I was told that it’s blocked and it’s, you know, all, you know, asking these questions, and it’s like, what are you doing? To be true to yourself? You know, like, that’s the first question that, like, if you’re struggling, if you’re feeling the loneliness, if you’re feeling disconnected, what are you doing first to make sure that you are loved for and taken care of? Right? That is a huge piece. 

And you know, I’ll just, it’s popping into my head. So I want to say this podcast, is not the only one that’s out there that is talking about spirituality, but know that if you are being called and being drawn to topics and conversations, find these folks connect with these folks that are other like mine, because many of this, I’m not saying all of us, are like in a really good place on it. But we are in the spiritual journey, right? We are, we are, you know, embracing the imperfections of life, we are learning as we go.

And we love being around people that are insane. We really do. So I’m curious, Melanie, how you’re gonna answer this? How has your life changed? We’re talking about stepping onto the spiritual path. How has your life changed, since you stepped on the path towards your deepest spirituality? Like, what is different today than I don’t know, if you want to reflect to a year 5-10 years ago, what is different? How is your life different being on this path?

Melanie: Very different. But it didn’t happen overnight. I think sometimes it can scare people to go on that journey, because they think they know, it’s like I have a podcast episode about this too. It’s kind of like, the fear of knowing what you really want to know, right? Like, are you afraid you’re gonna know and then just live with it? Are you afraid you’re gonna know and then want to blow up your life, right, and but learning is always the first step. And that’s the most loving step, it’s just opening up to learn anyway, and it doesn’t really matter what you do with the information, if you’re just open to learning it, it will definitely, it will definitely shift your life in some way. And in the end, it’s always been more positive for me whether or not everybody agrees with that, or whether or not it feels that way in the beginning. You know, definitely up for debate. 

But for me, I mean, the main thing that’s changed is, I have centered myself, I have centered my own desires, I sit with myself first, I really make sure to listen to me first. And that has brought up a lot of guilt to be processed and loved by me, it’s still probably the number one that shows up a lot of guilt or even shame. Shame was a big one for me a few years ago, and I went through a really crazy intimate year with shame. But it was so good to get to walk through that and to really learn what that part of myself meant. And that it didn’t mean what I thought it meant, and neither does my guilt, they actually really are always pointing me back towards myself. 

And so, you know, I haven’t given you a lot of detail. But you know, it’s lots of relationships have fallen away. Lots of new ones have come in, that are amazing. And my whole business changed completely as well. What I do in the world has changed completely. My goals have changed. My parenting has changed completely. And it’s so much better. Like it’s so much more connected. And I enjoy my kids. Like a lot. And it’s so magical and wonderful. Because every parent wants that. But how do you do that? When you hate yourself? You just can’t. 

And so it’s definitely become so much more magical and way more spiritual and mystical than I ever could have imagined. You know, it’s interesting when I started this journey, I don’t know if I share this with you essentially. And like my first fear was like, oh my god, I’m gonna like this as evil or reason to think I’m evil. How that lives somewhere. I mean, and my dad’s even asked like my sister, is she a witch now? All right, like just the crazy things that come up. And it’s so interesting to just sit back and see how you want to respond. Like, I want to defend and deny. And it’s like, why? Of course I am. Why would that matter? Right? Like, it’s, it’s just so interesting to see. So, I mean, a lot has changed, but some days feel really fast. And I feel some days feel really slow. But yeah, it’s definitely brought a lot more fun. I would say into my life.

Sunshine: I love that you call that a couple of things there. You know, I’m just gonna reiterate like one, these are journeys. So they’re not quick. They’re not fast, right? You know, when I think about somebody were to ask me and I, we may even have talked about how long I’ve been on my spiritual journey. It’s like us since I was like 11. I think even Devin, we agree that there was roughly around the same time, like in childhood, you started asking why things just didn’t make sense? So it’s not an overnight thing. It is a journey. It is about the journey, not the destination. But I love that you call that it’s not always easy and not everybody’s gonna like it. Right? So there are I mean, you know, part of my spiritual journey has involved a lot of tears, even like bouts of anger. Right?

Melanie: Frustrating anger. I didn’t talk about that one. Yes. Lots of anger processed as well.

Sunshine: Yeah, tons of guilt. I had a year where I process guilt and shame every single day, every single day. I don’t know if anybody’s watched the cartoon on Netflix called Big mouth that they have the shame wizard. 

Melanie: I need to know about this is. 

Devin: What is the shame was or do just come around and be like, Hi!

Sunshine: Big Mouth is a cartoon. I love animation, about like childhood. These kids are going through puberty. And so at some point, the shame wizard shows up. Right? And he’s like, oh, you know, I’m going to, you know, oh, they really don’t like you, you dirty pervert. You should be so ashamed of yourself. It’s so it’s, it’s just like, Oh my God. Yeah, I mean, it’s so reflective, they did such a spectacular job of even showing how we can like, just overwhelmed like whole groups of adolescents. And of course, the episode I watched the other night, they cast the shame wizard out. 

And then all the kids were like, doing everything without shame. And that was even beautiful, too. But yeah, it’s amazing how many folks don’t realize like, yes, if you’re on a spiritual path, even even when you know, you’re at a point of like, I would say all of us feeling pretty comfortable and competent. We’ve been on this journey does not change the fact that things will still get shitty every now and again. It’ll still get hard. We’re still human. So we may still have some of those feelings of guilt or shame or anger.

But I loved and loved Melanie, where are you said, you know, it’s fun, and you’re enjoying it, and life feels better. And so to me, it’s like, it flips the script where you start to recognize the power and the transmutation. You know, the benefits of this shittiness allows for this enjoyment of life in a way that you just never, like, you see the beauty and all of it. You really do.

Melanie: You know, my favorite answer the question Why? Literally it doesn’t matter. None of it matters.Because sometimes I think it’s very easy to take yourself away to just take it all so seriously and be so serious all the time. And it is serious work. But I think the serious work of all is literally play and realizing that we’re all wrong, and none of this shit matters. To be honest, it really does help to go there. And I think that’s a very spiritual place to be to is none of this is serious, like at all just as much as it is. It isn’t. You know.

Devin: I think that’s really important to have that balance. Because something I see happen for many people is they they go down this path of of asking why, or maybe just deciding at some point that nothing matters. I think some some religious doctrines talk about that. I mean, I wouldn’t. I don’t know if you call Buddhism a religion, but basically getting down to like the core of existence and how it’s meaningless. What is not theirs is meaningless. Yeah. And but that’s that’s the, the abyss, like, that’s the impasse and a lot of people stop there. And it’s like, what we’re It’s a condition I think of like post modernism where people stop with it’s meaningless fuck at all. I’m a robot.

So and it’s just like, Yeah, but you only went half way use stopped in the abyss, you’re at the edge of the cliff and you’re like just looking down into it instead of walking, you know that that archetypal kind of image where there’s this massive chasm, and you can’t see, the bridge doesn’t exist. But your faith, when you take the step is the energy that creates the bridge, as you walk across, it? You don’t see it, but it’s there when you actually take the step. And so I think, for me, that brings up this deeper question of Is Human Design inherently spiritual? Is anything inherently spiritual? Because if I just go pick up a human design book, because I’m feeling lonely, and I end, I’m still stuck in my brain mind trying to figure out how, and I find the system of human design that says it’ll make my life better. 

And I just replace, I don’t know, Roman Catholicism with human design is my religious doctrine like that. That’s not spiritual. So where is the spirituality? You know, how do we get there? And I think, I think my answer to that question would be, as long as you’re asking why. And you can take that’s the spiritual path, which is why someone can be a real, I say, real scientist, because there’s a difference between real science and the way that most science is being done today, don’t get me started on that. 

But you can be a real scientist, and have that fire of curiosity, really wanting to know why. And that is a spiritual path as well, as you like, uncover the mysteries of the cosmos. It’s still spiritual. So like, what’s, what’s the real question, I guess? How do we? How do we keep asking why? Because some days, it just sucks. Like, I give up, I don’t care anymore. I don’t care about the why I actually need a how to live through today. So it’s like this, you know, this ebb and flow of of why?

Melanie: And I think, you know, on those days, it could be good to look at your human design graph, because you need a little how, keep asking the why, you know, and and I think that’s why we have all these tools that we have, right? It’s why we have any, any of these things is to just keep on when you need some help when you need some rest. Right? It sounds to me like that place to is when people really need to rest and let it go for a while. Right, let the seriousness of it go let someone else take on the why for a hot minute, and you tend to you you know, and then you can find the why again. But yeah.

Sunshine: Part of my morning prayers comes out of my third step prayer out of recovery, which is I say to my you know, to you know, all the folks that I talked to, please allow me to remain in the passenger seat, let go of all control, sit back and just enjoy life. That’s all I want to do. I really just want to enjoy it right? I don’t I don’t want to control it. I don’t want to figure out how. Tell me, I’ll pay attention. Why is to enjoy. That’s my why. Why do I do anything that I do is it’s meant to just enjoy life.

Melanie, anything else that you’d like to kind of like, share with us today? I know I’ve got down here you know, why should folks go look for you? How do they look for you? What are folks listening? What do you want them to know about you and how they can connect?

Melanie: You can find me on Instagram, @melaniehealthcoaching, and I have a podcast called Hacker Human Design. I have a free quiz and mini course as well that can help you kind of dive into your graph. And I’m opening up a membership called hacker human design as well. And I think that’s opening today. So I think, yesterday or tomorrow, so I don’t know when this is happening right this when they’re releasing this, but it’ll probably be open. And yeah, it’s just a way for people to come in and like, find some community of people asking why and being seen and heal healed through connection as well, because I also think that’s very much needed right now. We need to connect with those people. Like you were talking about earlier sunshine like the the loneliness, we feel right in these journeys, sometimes, like, we’re the only one walking this path and finding those people that are walking with you. 

To me, it’s very, very important to build that safety piece that we were talking about. Is it even safe enough to go towards the why to let go of the how? That’s really I think, one of these people, they really desperately want to let go of the how, but they’re terrified to do it. And it is a terrifying thing to switch off the how and you know, stop striving to achieve for so many reasons, but we do we want to lean back and play in the why and go on that experience. And so that’s what I’m trying to create in that membership. So

Sunshine: I love that it will absolutely be out if you’re listening to this, because we’re not releasing this for a couple of months, Melanie. So you’ll have some time, it’ll be up and running. So fine, Melanie, I just they might my guides themselves are painting this beautiful picture of kind of what you were explaining. And I reminded me of all of our stars that connected in the very beginning. Right. And so just know and understand that you don’t have to be lonely. There are other folks that are out there other stars, other higher selves that are all connected to you. Right? You just have to be aware and be conscious enough to be looking for them. And you will find them and they will find you.

Yeah. All right. Speaking of fine, so I’m going to go ahead and say we’ve came up with this. Find your path, follow your path into your own deepest spirituality. That’s what we’re here to do. That’s what we’re here to help folks do. So I want to give a huge thank you to Melanie, for joining us today. Loved having you on. Thank you so much for being our very first guest on the podcast.

Melanie: So exciting. Thank you.

Sunshine: Absolutely super excited about that. So I will sign off now. Much love from me to all of you. Have a fabulous rest of your day and we will all talk again soon.

Devin: Farewell.

Melanie: Bye.


Get to know the co-hosts Sunshine and Devin

Rev. Devin Ryback, also known as The Mindful Mage, is a Personal Coach and Certified Hypnotherapist who helps people awaken their true magick and create powerful personal connections with the Divine in all things. Combining mindfulness, hypnosis, and over a decade of spiritual practice and experience, Devin shows up as a wise guide on the healing path for all who seek to know and be who they really are. Learn more at TheMindfulMage.com.

Sunshine is a Psychic Medium, Soul Healer, Spiritual Advisor, High Priestess, Reiki Master, Recovering Alcoholic and founder of Sunshine Readings. Her passion is helping others learn how to step into their shadows so they can uncover their own magick and psychic gifts needed to remove any energetic blocks to their soul’s enlightenment. She is the Creatrix of Illuminate, The Unschool of Witchcraft. This transformational program includes Sunshine’s divine-inspired gifts in 7 different monthly workshops and 1:1 access to her. In addition to owning and operating Sunshine Readings, Sunshine is also an award-winning software product manager and business operations expert that is helping corporations revolutionize their internal structure and processes to adopt a more innovative culture. In her spare time, you will find Sunshine dancing, cooking, painting, and hanging out with her five kitties in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan.

 “Only when we know our own darkness can we sit in the darkness with others.” – Pema Chodron

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