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Deepest Spirituality Podcast Season 1 Episode 2: Our Spiritual Awakening

Get ready for the continuation you’ve been waiting for. Brace yourself, for we left you hanging on a cliff, didn’t we? We spoke of our childhood selves, brimming with confidence, whispering to ourselves, “Just be who you are. Don’t let anyone dictate your path.” Oh, how naive we were. The truth, my friends, is far from simple.

In this episode, we unravel the layers of our past, exposing the moments that shattered our illusions. We shed light on the catalysts that sparked our spiritual metamorphosis. Prepare yourselves, for the tales shared, hold the key to our very souls.


Sunshine: Hey everyone, welcome back to Episode Two of the Deepest Spirituality podcast. I am your co host Sunshine, the pink-haired psychic medium, joined by my other co host-

Devin: Devin, the mindful mage. 

Sunshine: Very awesome. As a reminder, for anybody that is listening to this, maybe you stumbled across this, somebody shared this with you just thought you should listen, go find our other episodes, we don’t want you to miss out on all of this amazing conversation. And if you happen to be listening to this one, first, you might want to just stop and go back and listen to number one. Because these first three episodes are all about kind of like Devin and I and our relationship with spirituality and even meeting each other. And, you know, let’s be real, if you know a little bit about us, some of this and everything that we’re talking about might make a little bit more sense. So I’m excited about today’s continuation, I guess, or this continuation of the episode, we left off as a cliffhanger. Talking-

Devin: about 10 minutes ago. 

Sunshine: Restroom break. Yeah, a little bit more water. But we left off. If you remember talking about like, as children, we would have both told ourselves like if you want to, like be enlightened and live a spiritual life, we would have said, Just be yourselves. Just keep being awesome. And don’t let anybody tell you anything else. Just be who you are. Right? And then we talked about how like, that’s not how it works. Like we end up adults somehow doing what other people are prescribing us to do. And then then we have a spiritual awakening. So that’s all what today’s episode is about is what was our spiritual awakening, like? And so I you know, I’m I’m asking my guides, where do we start with and they’re like, they’re coming in, they’re saying they’re like, scrappy was life before your spiritual awakening? Can you describe that? Devin, can you describe what it fell? To me first? Yeah. Before you when you you know, before you had your spiritual awakening, what was life like?

Devin: Well, what I’m what I’m thinking about right now is where do I start? What and when was my spiritual awakening? There’s definitely a point in time. Where, you know, I like I fish back into the past. And there’s a point. There’s like this threshold where everything changed.

But that was very challenging. That was a very challenging experience. So like to ask to, to compare the before and after. For a while. The after was worse. 

Sunshine: Yeah. I believe that. I said yesterday that one of the women that asked, and that, you know that my event? They I mentioned in the last episode, she asked, she’s like, how do you know that you’re on a spiritually enlightened path. And what I didn’t share with you is I also told her, I said, a lot of people, you would probably have this conceived notion like, oh, well, you’re filled with joy and happiness and like, love. And that’s how you know, and I’m like, That is not how it always is.

Devin: Sorry to tell you. It might suck. Yes, it might for a temporary amount of time.

Sunshine: I’ll let you I’ll let you think a little bit about it. Because I do think it seems like I stumped you a little on this. So I, what came through as I was asking you is like, there it’s like, it’s like it’s not a day. It’s not a set a week, it’s not like a month. It’s actually like the spiritual awakening. When I look at it, it’s actually from about that age 11 that I mentioned in the last episode, where I asked that priest to be an altar girl. And I like literally discovered and was proven that like this man of the church leading this church was no more connected to God than I was. Right, like that was that piece. And it was all the way up until my 40th birthday when I hit rock bottom and got, you know, decided I needed to stop drinking alcohol because it was literally you know, a huge demon of mine. That entire fucking period is what they’re telling me. The whole thing!

Devin: Similar thing because I’m so that’s that’s what kind of stumped me I’m like, yeah. When was it? It was kind of like um so, I think I am blessed to have never really become so disconnected from my spirituality. Like I think a lot of people have an experience with becoming like, very very indoctrinated. And just like the true knowledge and awareness of of spirit is piled layer after layer after layer on top of with like all of this programming, really harsh to the soul programming. I think my life situation in certain privileges that I had allowed me to not, not succumb to, to the indoctrination, to the degree that I was seeing a lot of other people become indoctrinated. And honestly, I went through an atheistic phase as well.


In hindsight, I frame that as rebellion against my Roman Catholic upbringing.

And it didn’t last very long, maybe like two years, at most, some time in high school. And I think framing that now was just a way for me to psychologically purge. Oh, yeah, the programming that didn’t really work like, Oh, my God, God doesn’t exist. At least not that one. And just like, whatever I need to do is just total system dump.

Sunshine: Right? Yeah, it’s like wiping off the hard drive. Yeah, yeah, setting it.


Devin:  And I think I don’t know what you have in mind for this episode. But I can, like, I can definitely point to specific milestone events in my life that would catapult me forward in my awakening. 

Sunshine: Yeah, so I’ll go back to the original question that I asked, What did it feel like? And it’s so interesting, like, my guides kind of painted this picture to me like, so that whole time, like, 11 until 40, right, and so 11 to 40 If I had to really overgeneralize what it felt like it felt like I was always seeking for something. Always trying to find something out. Right. And like being frustrated because I wasn’t finding it. Right. 40 the difference? I realized that it’s actually the search that matters. Mm hmm. Okay. So like that to me, like if I had to really generalize what it would have felt like it felt you know, I felt lost, I felt more alone. I felt more. I felt more blind, even you know, is the word that came to mind. I have similarities here. Yeah, I felt more anger, I definitely felt and witnessed more anger at that time, you know, anger and definitely, you know, getting, you know, working a 12 step program, you do realize the amount of control so I felt like, I felt like my role in life was to control my life. That was a big difference. A big difference. It goes back to our conversation we were talking about before we even started recording the episodes around life, like the meaning of life includes learning that you’re meant to surrender to it. Yes. Right. And so like it was like it was a very different energy around like controlling and I experienced a lot more than those low vibrational energies, anger, shame, guilt. A lot of those were more common not that I don’t have them still today. But these were like-

Devin: As a spiritual being you still, you still get pissed off and they’re back.

Sunshine: Well, I’ve joked that back in the day I used to anytime I was angry because people had a hard time understanding when I was mad, because I don’t project anger into rage and violence. It’s not my typical anger state. I’m a very mellow and angry person. So I’d actually have to represent it with the Hulk. So people understood that I am very mad right now. I don’t have Hulk episodes anymore. I don’t do those. Yes, I still experience anger and frustration. And I still every now and again get pangs of guilt and shame, though I had a very intensive exercise. For a long time where I was I’d actively removed guilt and shame every morning. Right. But I still experience it, I’m just much better, you know, I’m much more consciously aware and I have a toolbox, that when low vibrational energies come, I have a toolbox that allows me to evaluate them and see the purpose that they serve. Allow them the space that they need, and then politely ask them to, you know, dissipate. I’m not even gonna say move on, but just dissipate right? transmute where they need to go.

Devin: Yeah, transmute, integrate whatever. And I think it’s very important distinction

between bypassing and actually, intentionally using tools or technologies, as I like to call them to really work on these things. Because it’s very easy to get stuck in a limited egoic frame where I say, Well, I don’t want to feel shame for what I’m doing. I’ll just, I’ll just get rid of my shame. But really, I’m just sweeping it under the carpet.

Sunshine: Box it with all of my other shame, garbage.

Devin: But in truth, every single human emotional experience, has medicine, to share with us like shame is extremely helpful, and transformative because it points to what I’m thinking is unacceptable. So if I don’t ever look at the shame, then I can’t ever be who I really am


Sunshine: Yeah, yeah, no, no, I 100% agree. I mean, I’ve come to I spent a lot of my life trying to avoid all of those emotions, I still experienced them, but trying to avoid them, trying to win they hit get through them as quickly as possible. And the fact of the matter is, is like when you are doing that, you’re also doing what trying to avoid all of the good, amazing, like, you don’t realize this is happening, but you’re also avoiding all of the really beautiful emotions of life. And you’re also rushing through all of those, like you you can’t choose to act with emotions in one way when they’re high vibrational versus low vibrational, you just can’t like I don’t believe in that you have to like your experience dealing with emotions is the same regardless of where that emotion falls on the like frequency scale. 

Devin: Right deeper the roots the taller the tree. Yeah, reach high and wide. You need deep wide roots as well in both directions.

Sunshine: I’d love to hear like I mentioned a little bit my you know, hitting rock bottom my forehead and I’m you know, we can definitely touch on that story at some point if it becomes up but what was one you said? There’s a couple of like, I’d love to hear what is like, what is a really big one. Like if you had to look back and say like what was your first you know, real slap in the face punch in the gut, rattle in the bones around your your spiritual awakening? What was it?

Devin: Well, even if you come to mind with that, like there’s one that happened earlier on in my childhood that I would not at the time have framed as a spiritual experience. But it was just a very, very, very, very big emotion for a tiny body to feel. And that’s when my sister almost died from my younger sister from kidney failure. Oh, because of some medic medication that she was taking for like strep throat or some bullshit.

Sunshine: Wow. I just watched that, like reverberating all through you as a kid.

Devin: And there’s this scene in my mind of staring out this bay window in the living room of my aunt and uncle, because my parents had left me with them so that they could go to the hospital to be with my sister. And as an older brother, I’m like, I can’t do shit. I can’t do anything to help. I’ve just held on. I’m helpless right here. And I’m useless too. I’ve done a lot of like ego unpacking. There was this one technique that I worked with this practitioner. I had to write out my whole life story with major memories, and then we would identify the patterns in them and like go through all of these major developmental phases of my ego, and the stories that I started to believe, yeah, unconsciously, about myself. And that was a really big influential memory. I’m gonna pause there and come up a level to give like, now, now that you gave me an example of what you meant when you were asking broad strokes, like, before and after, what was it? What it feel like. 


I think for me, the after, like the most, I guess, if I could distill the most important lessons into like, one drop of elixir of wisdom for people. It’s that everything is a story. Absolutely. Everything is a story. Everything. Choose your own adventure, and we can tell the story that we want.

Sunshine: Yes, we can. I

Devin: It really has taken many, many years. For the deeper felt sense truth of that, to integrate into my body, and my mind, but it’s everything is a story. So I often ask myself, what story am I telling right now? What story do I have about this person right now.

And, and then I very intentionally changed the story. If I want.

Sunshine: The channeling sessions, you did my very first one. And I last week, on vacation, read through some of the transcripts. And there’s this point where I think it was when I was probably in the like, 15 to 18. T age range. I was like, in a pretty good, I was in a very dark place in that in that moment in my lifetime, like depressed, expressing depression. But I had recognized and like, younger Jen- little Jen had asked, you know, me, it’s also my birth name folks that are like, who’s Jen into this whole conversation? I’m confused. Like, my guides are like, you just need to clarify that. 


So yeah, so there’s also my I had kind of like, asked myself or something along those lines of like life and basically told my little self like, Don’t worry, life gets better. I remember that. Yeah. And that was the moment that my internal eternal optimism was born. Right, like what a beautiful thing to say that older me took care of younger me to share that message. Because, yes, that is a story. And that’s a big thing. That’s a big deal. Like choosing, like, once again, we go back into that belief that we can get onto that topic again. But choosing to know, right, using your language, choosing to know that you always can see a different perspective. 


And you get to write that story of what perspective you’re going to take on as your truth. So you can choose that life is just dragging you through the fucking mud and you’re this horrific victim throughout everything. And you might have a lot of evidence, you might have all the evidence in the entire world for it, the entire world. Or you could also choose to look at that perspective to say in this lifetime, I’ve got to experience all of this horror and hardship. Because next lifetime, I’m going to be like, you know, I’m just I’m going to be something else or because I need all of this hardship to tell another story afterwards. Right. I’m gonna go in now share it change the world right now. 

Devin: Yeah, the metaphor of the Lotus. Yeah. Yep. It is a flower grows out of the muck at the bottom of the pond.

Sunshine: Yep. So it’s, it’s, uh, that that goes back to like, again, I think what even what how I was describing it, it literally is a shift in perspective. That spiritual awakening is a shift in perspective, and they’re like, literally, I’m hearing it in my head like the Kong. This is how timelines have been showing up to me lately. If they are big and they are hairy when they change clunk, clunk, clunk CLUNK CLUNK. because that’s what I hear. So that is the level of like, and this is why I say it doesn’t happen like overnight. 


So it’s often many days, maybe weeks, months, years, that that wheel is kind of shifting and changing. So yes, you may have these moments that we’re kind of going into. And I’ll take, I’ll open up this next one, because I think we share a similar perspective on this next one have like a kind of a big impact. But these moments are all part of that they are all the swing to getting there. So like, there are a lot of people that would be pissed off to hear that I am a firm believer, and everything happens for a reason, right?


 A lot of people that would piss, you know, like pissed the hell of them off and like bullshit, you know, children dying, and I’m like, Yeah, I mean, I get it, I It’s a shitty thing to have to accept sometimes. 

Devin: But it’s an important facet of, like, the greater picture of spirituality that we know, that needs to be discussed. And I think we’re going to do that. And just a little, a little hint, at that. You were talking about the birth of your eternal optimism. And you know, something, and this connects with telling the story that you want to, choosing your own adventure, something that must be done is embracing your responsibility. To choose your own adventure, to tell your own story to, to accept all of the bullshit and all of the pain and suffering that you’ve been through. It’s not your fault. 

Now, it’s your story, but it is your responsibility to heal or make of that what you will and it’s that, that key piece of responsibility that I think people really know, on a soul level. And the ego is afraid to do that. Yeah, but that’s that must happen you know that saying with great power comes great responsibility. Flip it? Yeah, with great responsibility comes great power as well. So if we take responsibility for our story, then we become extremely empowered. 

Sunshine: Most folks would probably also that are aware that like you, you are literally stepping into your magician, your magical your high priestess powers at that point, right? You are aligning yourself with your divine. 

Devin: And practice too because you’re just walking through the doorway into a whole new system online. And then you got to practice that so it’s gonna be easy, but it will be very fun if you

Sunshine:  It is definitely fun. So I know you know when I think about a spiritual awakening, and I’ve told many people this. I do not believe that my perspective and unlife would be the same if I had never used psychedelics. So I was in my late teens you know, I’m not going to judge anybody as far as age or anything. 


There are some folks that say like, would probably say don’t do it until after you’re 25 and your prefrontal cortex is whatever right like everybody love your do you you do you right I was probably roughly around the age of 19 and we so in all that just this god given Earth granted guy a presented however you want to plant could be consumed with because we’re not talking about like LSD, you know, you know chemically lab created we’re not like that you could take this right. I mean, I smoke pot too. And that wasn’t its own experience, but there was nothing.

Devin: I could talk about that to that was an important experience.

Sunshine: Oh, it was but it was nothing compared to the visual changes that the psychedelic provided because marijuana definitely lifted you know, it opened the third I changed the way that my thoughts process but you know, so that was just about mushrooms to be talking about mushrooms to be completely completely transparent here. There is that, that is my mushrooms, LSD. Psychedelics that I’ve used that salvia I guess some people would consider but yeah, oh, I never again once and never gonna do one time never. 


But yeah, I’m not gonna lie like, it was psychedelics that changed my perspective of what reality is. It was shortly after that, that I don’t remember if it was an actual, you know, philosophy class in college or not. But I was introduced to the concept of existentialism, you know, the philosophy and so like that in itself started to become such a like drumbeat for me, that really like existentialism, for those that aren’t aware, it’s this philosophical belief that it’s not eat like it’s not egocentric. But I mean, it is a US centric, but that you create your own reality, like you and your reality, like reality only exists for you that is it. Right? So you could believe.


Devin: That could go sour and scary, really fast. 

Sunshine: And well, you have your reality, right? And that’s your truth. Right. And what this did for me as a young adult was it helped me to like I let go of all judgment of people. It just vanished once I started just because I started to realize like, I would only be looking at things from my perspective, like I truly at that point, could only see things from my it took many, many years to realize that I had the power to see things from other people’s perspective as well. But I at least let go like that’s what mushrooms did for me was go like, wow, there is not just one reality, there are many. In fact, there are many. And so it is not fair for me to ever stick a fork into the ground and say that my reality is the only truth that exists. Yeah. Yeah, well,


Devin: I think in our episode zero, which, you know, we were recording before we recorded episode one I was talking about my other name, which is the psychedelic sage. Yeah. And just a little shout out to salvia. Salvia is, in fact, a psychedelic sage. It’s salvias in the sage family. And one of the most powerful psychedelics there is. And although I would not ever, ever, never, ever, ever do it again or recommend that anyone,

take salvia.


Although to be to be fair, I smoked an extract, I did not work directly with the plant, which I hear is a very different experience. Although I would not recommend it, or do it again. It it played a very key role in my awakening that happened in 2012. So I would love to tell that story at some point, but I think that could even be an entire episode of its own. I did want to reflect that psychedelics are mind altering substances ganja included. I like to refer to cannabis as ganja. Because that just feels like a more intimate, personal way to refer to that spirit.

Sunshine: I call it grass. So yeah, I’m literally like, what are you always talking about? And I’m like, yeah, the grass is my preference. Yeah. Happy and past life, I guess.

Devin: Ganja to, and especially after I had played around the psychedelics Gunja affected me very differently. But, um, but yeah, I owe a lot of my awareness that I have now to the help that I received from working with these sacred molecules, I will say, I don’t think they’re necessary to achieve any kind of spiritual awakening or enlightenment. I do think that their use historically, has either not been included or has been removed, or has been kind of washed over or hidden in metaphors throughout all kinds of religious texts, and religious traditions.

Sunshine: Possibly the burning bush is a metaphor for one I don’t know which but yes, Moses in the burning bush is supposedly a metaphor for actually the consumption of plant medicine.

Devin: The appearance of the manna after the rain could be a metaphor for mushrooms that spring up seemingly out of nowhere the next day after not being there when it rains. Because the fruiting body can appear like, literally overnight, yeah. So, I’m not too well read on that, but I am aware of those kinds of ideas. What I what I do know, is that for me, when I first experienced psychedelics, and I actually thought it would be mushrooms first, but it was LSD. Actually, it probably wasn’t real LSD, it was just ultimately as LSD. Yeah, well, you know, if you’re gonna go on this journey, like stick with the natural stuff first I would recommend just because you don’t know what’s out there.

Sunshine: Correct. And you know, like because folks may be listening to this like, as you heard Devin say, it’s not necessary right? If you’re going to choose to do I agree wholeheartedly.

Devin: We’re not even recommending it. Like if you’re going about how we got to where we are.

Sunshine: If you’re gonna choose the natural is great and here’s the other reason why that I love it is because you do have a lot of locations nowadays I you know, I’m here in the metro Detroit area, they have actually decriminalized it there are certain locations that you can get. So now you also have like, things being screened. You have things being looked at, like they’re not just there, like trust more trustworthy cert, like ways to be able to get and be able to consume so like, yeah, like, be safe. Don’t be stupid.

Devin: And also remember, there’s nothing without risk. That’s why we’re alive right now. Being alive is risky business. But yeah, my first experience with whatever the fuck I took, not not acid. But it was still mind blowing. And humbling. At that time. I was in my junior year of undergrad.

No, sophomore year in like 2011 I think.


 And I can talk more about my relationship with ganja which was very pivotal in my life. But I had just about that time, learned how to actually enjoy ganja because my first experience when I was 16 was a shamanic death experience. In hindsight, that’s how I would describe it. I literally died. And then I woke up the next day, but I really died. 


So we’ve talked about that some other time. And then I did not touch anything like that for a while, which is exactly what I needed. Because if I enjoyed that experience, my life would have taken a very different turn. I would have fallen off my trajectory. So they were like, Yo, we got to make this really bad for him. Sorry Devin. Really fuck you up.

Sunshine: Maybe that maybe that says a whole lot because my first I like intentionally found classmates that I knew had a reputation. Ask that befriended them, hoping fingers crossed that I’d get an invite to hang out which I did. And ended up like going and got like, high as a kite. The very first time laughing and giggling and fell in love with Mary Jane right then in there. I was like, Yeah, this is this is it. I was like, this is definitely got some, you know, like legs for me to hang out with. So I feel you on that. Yeah, I feel you on that. 

Devin: Yeah. Yeah. And I think I’m just to sprinkle this in here. In my personal experience,

is everyone familiar with the metaphor of the finger pointing to the moon? It’s a Zen metaphor.

So there’s this, the finger pointing to the moon, if you can imagine it in your mind. You know, someone is, maybe there’s a master sitting at the edge of a pond meditating, a student approaches and says, Can you please show me what enlightenment is? And the master points up to the moon. And the student being so infatuated by the master sees his finger. And he’s like, that’s enlightenment.


This is enlightenment. And no, like, look where I’m pointing. It’s the moon. So regardless of the deeper symbology of point your finger or the moon, the concept, the message in this metaphor, is don’t be fooled by the finger pointing to the moon. That’s just showing you the way to actually get to enlightenment. And there are many paths up the mountain. Yeah, only one way and The way as infinite forms. Yeah. So psychedelics, and mind altering substances that exist outside the physical body that we take in to alter our perception of what’s happening. That is a finger pointing to the moon. Yeah, that’s not enlightenment. Yeah. And for me it, I actually fell off the rails a lot, I became dependent on psychedelics as a form of escapism for a period of my life. 


And this, the great thing about those medicines is that they are intelligent. And so they got me out of that real quick, they made it super uncomfortable for me for my own good. But the real magic, the real, deeper. Wisdom comes from integrating the experiences that we have from working with those plants. We can’t rely on them. We can’t lean on them too much. Because then when they go away, we have invested so much of our meaning in them. Yeah, it’s all about what happens when you integrate your experience. And that’s, I think the greatest lesson that they taught me, aside from everything being a story, is that it’s all up to me. Yeah, it’s all up to me. Like, we can show you other dimensions, we can show you deeper dimensions of your own self, we can give you access to greater wisdom, but like, what are you going to do about it?

Sunshine: Yeah, what are you going to use it for?

Devin: Yeah, and sometimes it’s just like, just hanging out, you know, like, hey, let’s have a fun time. Eat some shrooms, and I’ll hang out with the mushrooms, see what they’re up to. And, but But still, it’s like, at this point, I’ve established like a deep reverence and respect

for their power. And in the same way that you would honor and respect a great friend or teacher, as well. You know. 

Sunshine: Yeah. 100%.

Devin: We’ve been slacking on your studies. Devin. What are you doing with all this stuff we’re showing you?

Sunshine: Yeah, I love that you actually use the teacher. And I’m sure that there are going to be a handful of folks that would be listening to this. And this, you know, is resonating, I’ve had enough conversations with folks to know that this is a very resonant story, that their their understanding of their spiritual path changes, after you know, witnessing I love that you’re touching them and on the fact that like, it can be, you know, just like, it’s interesting that I was telling you that I was reading the Kama mudra yoga bliss book and they say, you know, Tantric Yoga. I don’t know if it’s just Tantric Yoga, but it’s basically stated that like, man suffers from three things, anger, ignorance and desire, right. And desire for the most part, as we’ve kind of talked about can be very, very good and powerful.


Devin: I wanna put little asterisks on that, because I want to, I want to make a point.

Sunshine: But when your desire becomes obsessive, and all consuming, right, that’s when in essence, you know, some folks would say that the demon has taken control, and then you are no longer leveraging and using that as medicine. Right? You’re actually-

Devin: Leaning into the, the idea of the deadly sins almost right, like gluttony and like, it’s just

rolled out.

Sunshine:  You’re basically continuing to take actions that are going to lower you on that vibrational scale. Right? That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s, you know, really kind of the observation that I’ve made. So yeah, like, they, they definitely, they are medicine, there’s a reason why they’re referred to as plant medicine. So me personally, I do, I haven’t started to incorporate them on a regular basis for almost the last year. I do it because, for me, it’s, it’s this moment, almost every month, that helps me I basically ask, bring forth, what it is that I have yet to see.


Bring forth what it is, I still need to work through, allow me to work through it. Right, whether it’s here on this earthly, you know, dimension or in whatever dimension that I need to like, it’s very intentional, and there are times that it’s like nothing, you know, it’s just like a nice fun, you know, experience. And there are other times it is very deep and very intense. And we were talking about the most recent one where like, there was a very significant reminder to me to surrender. 


Very significant. And I had pain when I wasn’t, as I could not like, lean into the experience. It was painful to me. And, you know, my guides are all like reminding you they’re like, Yes, that’s what happens in life when you don’t surrender, pain and suffering. You’re funny thanks. all the time all the time. Yeah. All the time. What? So you kind of talk a little bit? Is there anything like, really mundane? I’m just curious, is there anything like real kind of like mundane, that would have had a very significant impact to your spiritual awakening that like, looking back at? You know, you said, your sister as a young child, that’s even a very traumatic experience. I’m curious, is there any point, you know, or like, that would have had a big impact? I’ve got something that I could think of, if you want me to go first. And yeah, give me give me. 


So for me, my marriage, I’m divorced. And so that’s crazy. Like, because as I asked the question, that’s what they popped into my head. But my, as I started dating my ex husband, we had known each other for like, 10 years before we started dating. And so like, he knew I was, you know, identified as a witch, and that I was a little bit like, kooky in my spirit. Like, he knew a lot of those things. But I don’t think he knew like how serious it was, like how much it was a part of me. And so, and when I say, like, mundane for this, like, this wasn’t like mind blowing. But over the course of years of dating him, then marrying him and being with him, he really helped to like stamp it down. 


I started to feel like I couldn’t talk about my spirituality anymore. I started to, you know, feel like, you know, I had to, like, hide it. And, you know, looking back, I don’t know that. It was the, you know, it wasn’t the, I wasn’t aware that it was why I went into therapy, but it really was, right, like, I could feel a distinctive difference. Prior. Right, I could feel like something had changed. And I couldn’t put my finger on it. But it was very much he was it. I don’t know that I would ever use this word. But this is the words that they’re putting into my mind. He was like, grooming me to be how he wanted me. So you remember how we said little Jen and little Devin? We’re both like just being yourself. He was taking me out, he was taking me where he wanted me to be. So like that head that was kind of mundane, in part of ABA had a big, big, big, huge role in my spiritual awakening. 


Because when I finally started to throw off everything he was trying to make me. I mean, it took me a while to dig myself out of it. But like that was it. That was like a really, really big piece of it. Realizing I had so and he was good at it, man. Was he good? good at it. Philia I don’t know if there’s anything else that’s happened in life that had a big role, like I said, not that, you know, the psychedelic training. 

Devin: It’s hard to, you know, going back to the concept of before and after. It’s hard to not see everything that happened before as very significant. To where I am now. It’s, it’s, it’s almost it almost feels disingenuous, ah, anything was more or less significant. Like there were definitely experiences that were more intense, emotionally or sensationally, like psychedelic experiences, or like traumatic experiences. But you know, like, we all have traumatic experiences. So it’s partly part of being here. Most of us, I suppose, have experiences with other people in the form of, of close relationships.


And I think we all have these moments of clarity around the patterns that have taken root in our lives. It’s almost like I don’t know this roller coaster that goes on a loop. There’s like that, that moment where you get to the top, and you’re sort of hanging there in stillness. It’s like your head comes above water. And it’s like, Whoa, I can see holy shit and it’s like, wow, and the go up there you go right back into the pattern. But I think it’s built into the way it’s built into the patterns. We’re all like metaphysical geometry of evolution, we get these moments of clarity automatically. And we get better at utilizing those moments of clarity. And then we hang on to the clarity as we surrender to the momentum of the pattern that has been established, because we can’t just change it like that. That’s not how we change things. 


But what we can do is cultivate that awareness, to hold on to the clarity, as we’re going through this whole thing. And then if we’re really aware, with that clarity, and we’ve whatever had like a lot of mindfulness meditation practice, or we’ve really integrated a powerful psychedelic experience, or whatever, we have some practice of awareness, as we’re going through the whole thing, again, that we can’t control. 


But now we can see the innards of this pattern. So we can see the unconscious thing from the inside. And then we can and then at some point, well change it or just laugh and enjoy it and grab the popcorn and start walking, depending on the pattern, right? Something just are, yeah. But then other other things like patterns of behavior, or things that we can actually genuinely influence.

Sunshine: Yeah, they’re not serving you. They’re not serving you like the microphone earlier. Yeah.

Devin: I just gotta let this thing go. That’s a dead weight.

Sunshine: You want to know what I love about this? And we’re actually going to take this right into the end of this this particular episode. I love because you and I have had just talked about our own spiritual awakenings, there’s been similarities, but they’ve been different. Right? They’ve been different. They are each art. Oh, yeah. Get into them. Like they’re different. They so like, your spiritual journey is your own. And this is why like, I joke when I was laughing when you asked me about the like, oh, one on one, like individualized education, right, when we were talking about that piece. 


You know, the funny thing is, and I think that was the last last episode. It’s like, yes, like that’s like how it has to be because every individual’s journey is different. And so you and I, up until around, let’s say, it was December of what it would have been in 2021. Both had very different journeys to the point that we didn’t even know each other. We didn’t even know each other. We’re, we both found ourselves over a year ago, sign up for the very same deep, intensive spiritual program, that I don’t think either of us knew what the hell we were about to get ourselves into. And oh, boy, was it a frickin doozy. But that, in essence, those decisions, the decision that we both made to sign up for that program led us to a very distinctive point to where we are here today. And so we are going to sign off for this episode. And you need to tune into the third one, where you’re going to find out how Devin and I first met, connect it all kind of weird, like we’ve talked a little bit it’s a little bit odd even when how we connected. So tune in next time here how we’ve connected and how like really, I mean, this it’s not like this connection is possible with every single other individual that asks why and that’s why we’re here doing this podcast, deeper spirituality. So tune in next time from me sunshine and Devin, much love from us to all of you. We’ll talk to you again. 

Devin: Farewell.



Get to know the co-hosts Sunshine and Devin

Rev. Devin Ryback, also known as The Mindful Mage, is a Personal Coach and Certified Hypnotherapist who helps people awaken their true magick and create powerful personal connections with the Divine in all things. Combining mindfulness, hypnosis, and over a decade of spiritual practice and experience, Devin shows up as a wise guide on the healing path for all who seek to know and be who they really are. Learn more at TheMindfulMage.com.

Sunshine is a Psychic Medium, Soul Healer, Spiritual Advisor, High Priestess, Reiki Master, Recovering Alcoholic and founder of Sunshine Readings. Her passion is helping others learn how to step into their shadows so they can uncover their own magick and psychic gifts needed to remove any energetic blocks to their soul’s enlightenment. She is the Creatrix of Illuminate, The Unschool of Witchcraft. This transformational program includes Sunshine’s divine-inspired gifts in 7 different monthly workshops and 1:1 access to her. In addition to owning and operating Sunshine Readings, Sunshine is also an award-winning software product manager and business operations expert that is helping corporations revolutionize their internal structure and processes to adopt a more innovative culture. In her spare time, you will find Sunshine dancing, cooking, painting, and hanging out with her five kitties in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan.

 “Only when we know our own darkness can we sit in the darkness with others.” – Pema Chodron

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