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Deepest Spirituality Podcast Season 1 Episode 10: Unveiling the Essence of Spirituality with JRzye

Check out our guest in this episode:

YouTube and a FREE copy of their book!

In this episode, we break free from the limitations imposed by society and dive headfirst into a world of spiritual revolution. We challenge the norms, question everything, and invite you to join us as we explore the sacred connection between nature, particularly water, and spirituality.

Drawing inspiration from the waters that sustain all life, we challenge the very foundation of traditional spirituality. It’s time to embrace a new way of thinking, one that empowers us to create change and heal ourselves and the world around us.

But this podcast is not merely about exploration; it is a call to action. Join the rebellion, my fellow seekers, as we dismantle barriers, defy outdated systems, and forge a path towards a more enlightened future. It’s time to tap into your inner healer, embrace your power, and create positive change in your own life and the world around you.

Sunshine: All right, everyone. Hey, welcome back to Deepest Spirituality. We’re on episode 10. Today, I am incredibly excited. It is just me. So this is Sunshine, the pink-haired psychic medium. I’m joined by a guest, my lovely co host this week, so kind of bummed. But you get me and you get our awesome guest today. And I want to remind everyone that is listening to this, you know, maybe on a podcast platform, we’re on all of them. So you know, this is one episode of may be many who knows, when you’re running into this, right? You could be running to this five years from now. Go find the rest of them, right? Go find them go listen. There’s all sorts of great conversations that we have with some pretty spectacular guests. And you don’t want to miss any of them. Including this one today. So do you pronounce it Jay? Reezy? Is it pronounced Jay?



Jay: Oh, Jay rise.



Sunshine: I was really, I was really kind of hoping it was Jay Reezy. Cuz



Jay: I know, right?



Sunshine: There was once upon a time I was referred to. I’ve had some people call me that. So, that was gonna be kind of funny if that was how it was pronounced. So J rises. And I am completely fascinated by our guest today, I couldn’t even do him justice to kind of, you know, introduce him. So we’re gonna let him do that. But of course, if you’ve listened to any of our podcasts before, you know, we always start with a very beautiful opening ritual, just to connect all of us because let’s be real, we’re talking about deepest spirituality. And one of the very deepest, deepest philosophies is that we are all connected. So we’re going to make sure that that happens right here and right now.

 

And I want you if you can safely close your eyes, right now, I want you to do that, I want you to close your eyes, if you’re driving and listening, don’t do that. But if you can close your eyes, and I just want you to sit there and take a deep breath in and relax, because we’re going to connect every single one of us that are listening right here. And now all together. And I want you to imagine all the way imagine all the way, the very  top of where you could look all the way up a beam of light cascading from the top of your crown of head all the way far far up, extending well above the atmosphere of the years, Earth all the way up through the galaxy of the Milky Way, all the way beyond all of the other galaxies that exists all the way out to the space, well beyond what any of us have ever possibly explored or seen through any scientific method. So beyond the veil, to that other side, this blank space where every single thing within the world within the universe within consciousness has been created from this space, I want you to imagine a star that exists in that blank, dark space out there, that star just pulsating and vibrating right now. 

 

Glowing, and that star is connected and cascaded all the way down to you. That star is the source, your source, your connection to it. And I want you to imagine now, just across from that star, you can see another one. And you see that it’s glowing and it’s pulsating. Maybe it’s vibrating. I’m gonna tell you that other star that other stars me. Maybe it’s even glowing a little bit pink for you right now. 

 

Right, you take a look. And we’re gonna do one of the most fun parts right now. I want you to imagine on the count of three, your star in my star enacting the silver cord of energetic consciousness. Ready, counting down from three to one, three two one and the cords connected. And now you and I are connected to each other. And you notice now zooming back out from my connection extends all sorts of beautiful silver threads.

 

 And even further when you zoom back and look all of these stars are now all connected to each other. Not just mine and yours but every single silver thread of mine is connected to every other one of the listeners to our guests here. And if we zoom all the way out our collection of stars now up here to just combine and intermingle with every other star within the entire universe. Showing that we are all part of this beautiful collective consciousness.

 

Now that we are all connected, I’m just gonna go ahead and count back down from three two one again and just bring us right here. Holding on to that, that feeling of that connectedness. But bringing us back to this conversation that we’re about to have here today. Coming back three, two, and then one. Oh, my goodness, I am so excited for our conversation today. This connection that all of us have, I have here with you, Jay rise, everybody else that’s listening. Once you do us a favor, start off by sharing with us and everyone listening, who are you? Who are you and tell us a little bit about this journey? Because like I said, I’ve been fascinated. I was reading all about you today and I am just ecstatic and excited for today’s conversation.



Jay: Thank you. I’m honored. I’m JRzye. And I spent two and a half years homeless on the streets of Toronto running my business. I eventually manifested my way out of that and helped Evan Carmichael build his YouTube channel to 3 million followers. Then I did a brief stint as the bimbo whisperer, helping only fans models with my partner sunshine and now we run a happiness self help podcast for rebels called eyes wide open.



Sunshine: I love it. you know? Those are lovely, juicy little tidbits about you. But man, is your story much more deep than just what I was reading, you know, this morning. So I think you know, you’re on the podcast called deepest spirituality. Right. So Jay, right? Will you share with us? Like, when you hear that word? Spirituality? What? What does that mean to you? 



Jay: Whoa, that’s a good question. I like it, opening with the big guns. To me, spirituality is

the best term that we have to describe our true nature as beings. So we’re all spiritual beings. Whatever form we happen to take, whether we’re in a human body, or we’ve passed on to another realm, or we’re in the womb, or whatever you call it, floating above the atmosphere, wherever you believe, reincarnated lives. We’re all spiritual beings in some form or another and spirituality is our exploration or expression of that very spiritual beingness.



Sunshine: I love that. I really love that. And I you know, it’s such a, I’m sure there’s a dictionary definition of spirituality, right? I’m sure there is. But it is such a personal thing to so many people. So I’m curious. You know, you shared a little bit about your journey, you shared a little bit of where you’ve come and, you know, how was your life, how is your spirituality playing a role in any of that?



Jay: Oh, it played a huge role. Um, I was raised by pretty devout Christian parents, who believed very much in spirituality but have a very sort of narrow denomination, right? They believed in the spirituality of God and the spirituality of us as God’s chosen this kind of thing. And they believed in it so much that they eventually took us out of church. And my mom started teaching at home teaching her own version of Christianity, because she didn’t like what the church was teaching. 

 

And so I ended up getting a strong foundation in spirituality, just from those early years, like from being indoctrinated into Christianity, and then sort of rejecting the church’s Christianity along with my parents, and exploring their own version. And in high school, I took theology and philosophy and these types of things. And I excelled at those courses. So I ended up exploring a lot of other world religions. I took a world religions course too. And after that, I bounced around various churches trying to find my way. 

 

And when I ended up homeless, I came face to face with my personal connection with God because all the teachings and all the courses and all the churches and all this stuff didn’t really help at all, when you’re homeless for years struggling to get out of it. You’re forced to confront a lot of ego stuff and personal demons and past dogma and other people’s teachings and baggage and karma and whatever you want to call it. And I began to realize that everyone’s spirituality is personal to them. 

 

And this is touched on in various religions, but it’s kind of glossed over, because they all focus on their rules and their stories and their teachings and their fables. And it seems likely that they should be emphasizing and highlighting just how personal spirituality is, like you said, like you mentioned, and if they did emphasize that I might have had an easier time of things. 

Because I wouldn’t be so focused on all the rules and all the teachings and all the doctrines, I’d be focused on my personal connection with God or source or the universe or spirituality of whatever color or flavor you subscribe to. And Well, I eventually figured that out, regardless of what they taught or emphasized. And once I focused on how personal spirituality is, and how we’re all a part of source or connected to source, and how we’re all individuated aspects of source expressing ourselves, I began to tap into a lot more power. 

 

It’s difficult to manifest power on earth, like in our lives, if we’re constantly externalizing power to some other thing externalizing it to the doctrines of Christianity externalizing it to Buddhism externalizing it to astrology, externalizing it to tarot cards, I’m not against any of those things, they are all incredibly valuable things that have played a role in my life. The trap I’ve found for myself anyways, and I imagine for others is to over rely on those things or over emphasize those things, or over externalize our power to those things. 

 

When really, if we took away all those things, and you threw us all on a desert island with access to none of those things, we didn’t we weren’t taught them we don’t have the books, we don’t have the crystals, we don’t have the Tarot, we don’t have anything, we would still remain as powerful spiritual beings, as we have always have been. And so when you’re homeless, it’s it’s close to that, like you don’t have the shelter, you don’t have the amenities you don’t have the resources, you don’t have the support system, you don’t have the people to rely on, you don’t have the stimulation and the devices and all of these kinds of things. And so you’re forced to tap into your own power and manifest your way out of that situation.

 

 Without any external spiritual resources. Which again, I do value and I’m so glad I have them back with me now. But like I said, the theme of my journey was to discover our own individual power, which isn’t an ego based power, it’s our individual connection to Source and I was so grateful to you for doing that connection ritual, because it made me feel closer to you and to your audience and to source and it got me in a very good zone or vibe for this interview. 

 

And it reminded me of my time back on the streets, because all I had was my connection to Source. And so eventually, I ended up in a closed down mall bathroom. One night like a dark night of the soul I was huddled up curled up in a fetal position on the tile floor, which I don’t know probably wasn’t hygienic, but I was exhausted and broken. And I was just sobbing right snot pouring out of my nose. Just like those deep heaving lung gasps of pain and sorrow of being homeless for so long. 

 

And as a child I was officially diagnosed as a gifted child with a genius IQ or whatever. And that caused me all kinds of problems. I became super arrogant and condescending which led to the homelessness . It’s a bit tricky to thrive in life. If you’re constantly believing you’re better than other people and superior and you’re used to coasting on life and nothing is a challenge. And then when you face the real world, and you have to make money on your own and run your business on your own and beat homelessness on your own, it’s a huge wake up call. And so anyways, I was there on the bathroom floor contemplating life. It was actually after a failed suicide attempt. And shortly after that, when I woke up, well, I didn’t know I slept much that night. 

 

But I remember waking up and I went to a park bench, and I decided to give up. I was done with society, I was done with all the rules. I was done with trying, I was done with struggling, I was done with productivity, I was done with fixing things, I was done with getting out of homelessness or beating this situation or manifesting my way out of it or anything like I was just done. 

 

And by putting myself aside, it paradoxically, allowed me to tap into my individual power, like tap into my connection to Source my personal and individual connection to Source. And so I was laying there on the bench, and I laid there for 36 hours until my shoulder blades were blistering. And then I couldn’t stand the wooden bench anymore, and I was boiling hot. And my throat was parched, my water bottle ran out a long time ago, and I hadn’t eaten. And I was inspired to leave the bench. 

 

But it wasn’t leaving the bench for any reason, it was sort of an inner impulse, because I was determined to just lay there die of starvation or dehydration, and so be it. And so this was a very strange feeling, it was different from all the other feelings like, moving around, or going to create a blog post, or whatever I was trying to do. It was just this impulse. And when I followed it, it took me to a library that had air conditioning. And I was like, Hey, this is an improvement. I’m so glad I did this. And then at the library, I just turned on my laptop. So I looked busy, like I looked like I belonged in the library. 

 

Again, it was just an impulse, I didn’t have any plan. And once I did that, I ended up feeling inspired to comment on various forums and stuff. This was before Reddit, this is way back in the day. And I was giving answers and wisdom and ideas and insights on all these different forums, like fashion forums, and art forums and business forums and branding, forums, and marketing forums, and you name it. And I’ve always been fairly intelligent, like I said, I was diagnosed this way, or labeled this way, or whatever. And my parents taught me ahead of the class, and I went to a gifted school and all this kind of stuff. 

 

But instead of just appreciating that quick mind as a gift and something to help benefit others, I always sort of held it above others, like I’m smarter than you kind of thing and it’s not that’s not healthy or good or recommended. It’s not a massive contribution to the world. But it was a phase that I was in before I got humbled by life. And before I learned and this time after my dark night of the soul, and after the inspired turning point on the bench. And after getting to the library, I just started giving my gifts, you know, and I didn’t like a full time job because I was homeless, and I had nothing else to do. 

 

And I had no one to talk to you and I had no friends and no parties and no distractions and I wasn’t even running my business anymore. I just gave up. And I started helping people on these forums, really helping them and giving my wisest answers possible. And I figured if I’m gonna die soon, at least I went out on a high note, like at least I did something vaguely beneficial to humanity somehow. And even if no one knows it, and I don’t get credit for it, and I don’t build a business off it and I don’t get paid for it. It doesn’t matter, at least I did something. And so this led to a whole chain of events where I ended up collaborating with Evan Carmichael for over a decade. I was the right hand man. I got a piece of his company like I really just blew up. I ended up sleeping on his floor, the floor of his office at the beginning.

 

 But the point is this got me out of homelessness, this unfettered, zero agenda, gift giving to others And to do it like a full time job, not like, oh, I tried it once and it didn’t work, or I did it a few times, but where’s my money, it was just pure, sincere giving. And it was like a super transcendent spiritual experience. I was flabbergasted. I was stunned, I didn’t know my eyes popped open, my jaw dropped. Like, I was like, what is happening, I met this celebrity and he brought me on board, and we’re working together and he treats me like an equal and I got, you know, shares and stuff. 

 

And now I’m helping everyone and people respect my advice. And my wisdom is like, was I homeless six months ago, what happened. And all because I made peace with my own spiritual connection to Source and I dropped the ego and I dropped all the rules, and I dropped everything I’ve been taught. And I just followed that impulse from my heart or my gut, or wherever you feel it comes  from above. And by following impulse, after impulse, I manifested my way out of a terrible situation into the exact opposite of a super blessed situation.



Sunshine: You are describing what I refer to. I call them intuition trails. Oh, good word for it. I call it the tuition trails, where they just kind of like keep stacking, and as long as you keep one foot and just following it, you know, the wonderment that kind of comes with life is really, you know, amazing, like, wow, how did this happen? Right? Like,Oh, my goodness, David’s like, such a powerful story.

 

 And you know, for our listeners, this is what I love about this, right? You know, because you kind of touched on so many things here. So many, right, starting all the way with, like your childhood and some of that background. But like, where you found this spirituality, where you found this deep connection, I felt like you had nothing. There was nothing. There wasn’t a book. There wasn’t a church, there wasn’t a mentor, there wasn’t a guru, there was nothing except you. And like all hopelessness, and like, you know, like, you dark night of the soul, like totally, that’s all that it was. It was just you. 

 

And the universe. Yep. It required nothing else. Nope. Right. Spirituality does not have to be complicated. It doesn’t have to have like, you know, the books, the crystals, the tarot cards, the crosses, the pentagrams, that whatever it is all fun, all lovely, Representative representations. But the only thing that you need to step into your own spirituality, as you just so unbelievably inspiringly said, is really yourself. I’m curious, you know, because you talk to you, you know, we’re raised in a devoutly Christian household, you’ve talked a little bit about exploring, you know, some other religions or things of that nature, but how was like, your beliefs changed throughout, you know, kind of your life like, you know, Christians, meaning you’re, you’re going to, you know, you’re practicing Christianity, you’re believing in Jesus your belief, like, how was your, as a spiritual person?have your spiritual beliefs changed throughout your life?



Jay: Wow, another great question. I like your interview technique. So my beliefs have changed a lot. And at the same time, they kind of haven’t. So, I’ll explain. In my early years with the Christianity, I was taught to view Jesus as a role model.And I was taught that he was the embodiment of love. And the Bible pretty clearly was written by a group of people, probably men with an agenda. 

 

I don’t think  It seems more likely that it was written in various time periods by various people, each with their own separate agenda, who, while contributing positive things, and writing down positive things were similar to our modern gurus of our time. So if you look at Gary Vaynerchuk, or Marie Forleo, or Alex or Mozi, or whoever, Tony Robbins, All these people have very, very wise things to say. And when they put them down in black and white in a book, it’s powerful. But they’re not all right. 

 

And I’m sure they’re inspired by spirit or inspired by source or inspired by whoever created this, these positive contributions and their incredible works. But inspired or not, they’re still going to get some stuff wrong, and they’re still going to let their own biases creep in. And so it seems, it seems fairly obvious or at least likely to me that a similar thing occurred with the Bible, a whole bunch of gurus of the time wrote something positive. And of course, they nailed a good percentage of it, but couldn’t avoid letting their biases and their pick a Dillos and their laws and quirks. Thank you, sunshine. 

 

Yes, their humaneness creeps in. So when I was taught that Jesus is the ultimate role model, and the ultimate embodiment of love, and I read all of the Bible and the stories in it, and we discussed it in church, and Sunday school and this kind of stuff, back then I believed it hook line and sinker, like I just bought in. Because as a child, you have very minimal filters for what you’ll believe. Children are very great at believing things, they’re just fantastic at imagining things. If you give them a vivid picture, they’ll imagine it, they’ll buy into it, they’ll absorb it, they’ll internalize it, and they’ll believe it. 

 

Their skepticism levels are fairly low. And I was no different. So I bought into all of that. But as children grow and become teenagers, they become much more skeptical. And it’s much harder to get them to believe something. And you know, when that keeps up, they either become super bitter, cynical adults, or they attain a healthy equilibrium of skepticism and, and naivete or whatever. And so, credibility credulousness So, so yeah, so as a child, I bought into all that stuff. As a teen, I started questioning it. 

 

And leaning hard the other way, like, I don’t believe any of this stuff. But the running thread through all of that was, I found it difficult to find a superior role model. So despite the flaws and the weirdness of the Bible, and despite me becoming very skeptical, there was one thing I never really became skeptical of, which is if Jesus was real, or fictional, like, like fictional or not, someone has has has crafted a narrative here, where this man makes the right decision. And pretty much every case I’ve I’ve seen, like, it’s super rare for me to read a story about Jesus and go like, Ah, dude screwed up, man. He should not have detention to make that decision. That was the wrong call. Right? He’s always right.




Sunshine: Well you said He is the embodiment of love. And if you are making decisions out of love, right, how could you ever be wrong? Right. You know, I don’t know how much you’ve read about Aleister Crowley himself, but a very great and powerful magician. You know, love is the law.



Jay: Yes, it’s the law. And when I was exploring all these different religions, I did read a Crowley book. Maybe I forgot the book I forget, I was a young kid. And I was just, I had this golf friend named David. And, you know, we played d&d and wrote plays. And he introduced me to all that stuff. And as a kid, I knew I wasn’t supposed to be reading it like it was against the Christian doctrine, and how dare you read all of this occult stuff, but I remembered resonating quite a bit with it. And I was like, why is this? Why is this hidden? Why is this bad mouth? Why do we bury this? This guy seems pretty smart. Like he’s, he’s got the hang of it.

 

 And I remember thinking Jesus would agree with a lot of this stuff. Yep. And, that ties into exactly what I was about to say anyways, which is, as I studied all the other religions, and as I explored all the other spiritualities, I kept coming back to Jesus making loving decisions. Love seems to be the way I know it can be convoluted sometimes, but if you get down into the details and examine the stories and the fables and the narratives, you will see, like, pretty much the dude is a great role model, fictional or real. This is who we should be aiming for. I mean, Damn, dude, the guy makes fire decisions.

 

 So and then if I study Buddhism, all the things that I resonated with, in Buddhism were like similar decisions that Jesus would make. And then when I studied the Lost teachings of Atlantis, it’s all about love and light and love and light and light workers and, and it’s like Jesus would agree with this too. This is All decisions of love and I started seeing the common threads, even Islam. Yep, Muhammad was was constantly making these loving decisions. And again, in all of these books, you can find unloving things. There are quirks, and there are flaws. And there are things that are written poorly and so on human work. 

 

Yeah, but overall, this principle of embodying love, similar to how Jesus did or Mohammed or Buddha or whoever you want, stood out to me. And so my spirituality began to change, like, I wasn’t so tied to Christianity. And I also hadn’t settled on any other religion. But I, my common thread that I had from the beginning, which is, this dude is a great role model, I should be like him, never really went away. And anytime I found anyone that might pull me away from him from that, I ended up just seeing the similarities between the new person and Jesus and I’m like, well, whatever, then a bot embodies love, like Buddha embodied love, like Muhammad and body love, like Jesus. I mean, and, and just be smart and wise and skeptical enough to see through any, any unloving things that happen to work their way into the material. 

 

Whether you’re reading the Koran, or the Tao de Ching, or the Bible, there’s going to be something that creeps in, that’s not quite right, something from the times like they were against women and that, like, I don’t think Jesus was against women, like I think he was a loving guy. But I think the people who wrote it, like they had their own agendas, and they put it in there. And I don’t think the Qur’an wants to never show skin of any human being or whatever. But I think whoever was running things back then was jealous of his wife and didn’t want her showing up. And he worked there. 



Sunshine: I love that you’re calling it this out, because I, this is a cop topic of conversation that I’ve had with people, many, many times around, you know, even when you have a channeled book, right, even if you want to think of the prophets of channeling these, you know, the apostles channeling these messages from the Divine from God, or anything that they steal, every single one of them are going through the filter of a literal human being. And as humans, it is so hard, it is nearly impossible for us to remove all biases, when we are trying to share a divine message. It just is next to impossible, right, you know, we everything goes through our own lens.



Jay: I totally agree. And I’m glad you resonate, and that you’ve talked about it with others, we need more people spreading this message. And I have a metaphor for this, which is, even if you pump pure oxygen, the purest oxygen ever into a room, whether it goes through a pipe, or a HEPA filter, or a natural filter, whatever, like whatever, whatever it flows through, that oxygen is not pure, by the time it reaches people’s lungs, because it picks up particles of the filter or the hose or whatever. The gas molecules get compressed, or something different happens to them on the way like it’s just, it is not the same oxygen that it was when it left the source. Yeah. And so all this life gives a message of love and love and kindness and love and so on. As soon as it gets distributed to others in humanity. It’s already tainted, and even me, like whatever I’m saying here today, it might be as aligned as possible as I could get with Jesus or Muhammad or love itself for source. But unfortunately, unavoidably some of my biases or life experiences will pop up like will filter in, right.



Sunshine: I mean, yeah,even if it’s not through language, it can be through her like words, it can be through body language, your tone, absolutely. All sorts of things. You know, I was reading through the various different things that you wrote and kind of like on this topic of biasness. You know, and like this, like loss of, you know, things, you you make this comment, which I kind of really love because I think we resonate in this, that you talk about gurus, right, and you you make this comment, they, most of them, don’t talk about what works for you, right. And so like, you know, again, if we talk about the Bible, or any of these books, they’re there. Once again, it’s this one individual that has taken a divinely inspired message and is trying to translate it, and then you’ve got 1000s Hundreds, millions of people that read these books, and, you know, there are many, many of them are not enlightened enough to understand that. It’s not talking to you, right? It is.

 

 It’s, it’s really it’s this broad odd story that is supposed to be painted. And you know, there’s still a level layer of your interpretation that you’re supposed to make. But you, you make that comment, they don’t talk about what works for you. So I’d love for you to share some of your own philosophy around. Because you’re all about that and your writing. Right? So I’d love to hear about that. Like, why is that so potent for you? Why is that such a huge piece? And you know, I’d love it if you could share even how it ties back to spirituality. Right? Because that to me is I think the essence of spirituality. Is that an individual illness?



Jay: I love it. This is another great question you’re on fire. I find that there are countless gurus out there experts that sorties whatever, all. On the face of it, I am eagerly aiming to help others. And, and I don’t, I don’t doubt that, like, I don’t doubt the sincerity of their intentions. I mean, some, there’s some scammers out there or whatever, sure. But I think deep down deep. They built their career by doing their best to help others and they’re continuing to do so unless some of them lose their way or whatever. But the thing about that is there’s a big difference between intention and execution. A small child could intend to help mom cook dinner, but in execution burn the house down. I could intend to teach spirituality in execution to create a cult?



Sunshine: Oh, you just hit one. I mean, there are some that intend to do that. I don’t know if you’re aware of that, or no, there are. There are some that intend to do that.



Jay: Absolutely. There are. But there are I, I like to think there are more that do it unintentionally. I like to see the world as overall positive. It’s super easy to be cynical. But we have 8 billion people on the earth and the amount of people who are intentionally creating cults. I’m feeling like it’s it’s super tiny percentage, like an insanely small percentage, they exist, and they get a lot of press. 

 

They get documentaries, Netflix documentaries made about them. But I think most people are just trying to help others and they grow bigger, and they scale up and they accidentally create a call. Yeah. Either way, this gap between intention and execution is where the whole gurus tell you what works for them, not for you, comes in, because their intention is to help. But the only thing they really know about life like these people are not students of life. They’re people who have gone through a journey.

 

 And then they share their journey of their experience. And when they discover something that works for them, they just go and preach it like it’s the number one solution for every human on Earth. They’re like, but it worked for me, though, but it worked for me. And if you’re not doing it right, then it won’t work for you. But like, if you’re not getting results, it’s not it’s not because the thing is wrong, it’s because you’re not doing it right. But what they’re missing is that what worked for them was never meant to work for all 8 billion people. So most gurus would be wise to make peace with the fact that what works for me. 

 

Definitely, absolutely guaranteed will not work for everyone. Because it was an individual thing for you. And it might work for some percentage of the population, but acting as if it’s the panacea or cure all be all end all solution. That’s a bit sketchy. Unless what they’re saying worked for them was love. Because then you get back to Jesus and he preached that love will work for everyone. 

 

And I think it’s the only thing that will work for everyone. But love is so vast that when an individual waits and shows up in different situations, it looks different every time love could be love could be putting your pet down or pulling the plug on a loved one or it could be prolonging their life as long as possible. So it’s two opposite extremes. And so you can get away with preaching that love will work for everyone. 

 

But only because love contains every facet of humanity and could technically serve every individual in a different way. As soon as you get down to my three step system or my seven steps, this system or this one secret that does this thing. Now you’re not preaching love, you’re preaching the thing that worked for you because you struggled with something and so you finally beat it and now you’re obsessed with it and you can’t stop teaching it To everyone else, and that’s fine.

 

 I’m going to do the same thing. Like we’re all it’s, it’s very common for growers to do this, I would try and avoid it myself. But if I end up doing that, I won’t be surprised. It’s a human thing to do to have trouble in life, to struggle, and then to find a cure, and then to preach that cure to everyone you can. It’s like your wound is your weapon or your mess is your message or Yeah, purpose from pain. But it’s not love.



Sunshine: I think too, though, I think it’s humans. We want that, like we, I think we’re also hardwired to say, well, if it did work for you, right, like, let’s be real, I read the instructions on an Ibaka box of macaroni and cheese every time I make it. Because what if there’s a step that changes that’s just so much better? Right? Like, if you actually add the milk in before the butter, and that just, like, makes it the most spectacular macaroni and cheese ever in the world now? Right? So, you know, sometimes it’s easier to learn faster to learn through other people, you know, so that you don’t make their mistakes. 

 

But yeah, I’m, I am totally with you. I am not in the like one way, only way anything of that. And even, you know, because I do a lot of mentorship and coaching. But my whole thing is, I’m actually like, because I’m, I’m a psychic, I use my connection to Source and they’re to get how do I need to teach them? How do they need to better learn brilliant techniques? Are they actually not, you know, exploring and looking at? How are they, you know, how can I shift their perspective? So they see something differently? Right. And, you know, because, I mean, I’m trying to teach people to be psychics, good luck trying to prescribe that. Yeah, good luck trying to prescribe that. you’ve got this other comment on the site that you kind of talk about, because I think it’s, I think it’s really beautiful that you’re, you know, you’re representing the reality, which is, most of these folks are not going to, like, teach or mentor or share their expertise on an individual basis. Right. That’s just most of them are going to do that. 

 

But you also make this kind of statement that you know, as humans, sometimes, we struggle to even see the truth from the lies, like, be able to see that this person might be able to help us versus not because they’re not. So you literally say, you know, something wrong. So the question that I wrote down that I’d love to hear your response to is Why do you think people struggle? To see the truth? From the lies? Why do people gravitate to these, you know, one stop, shop, you know, like, fit in the box kind of mold? Why? Why is everyone going down this path and following the, you know, maybe the not so wisest path, but the path that they’re believing is working for everyone else? What, what causes that you think?

 

 

Jay: That is another great question. I could do a whole whole book on this stuff. Like you’re really inspiring some interesting thoughts. And I don’t get to talk about this very often. So I’m grateful. And the whole truth lies. There’s a myriad of reasons like there’s more than one reason. So depending on who you’re talking to, you’ll probably get more than one answer. Unless it’s someone who knows all the reasons and summarizes them for you, which I’ll do my best to do here. One of the reasons is that the human brain since caveman times has been wired to find shortcuts, like Time is precious, we all die. 

 

And deep down in our DNA, we know this, we know. It’s important to make the best of this lifetime. Even if you believe in reincarnation, we forget our previous lives. And we come back again as mortals specifically to have this feeling of death hanging over us and specifically to make the best of whatever lifetime we have. 

 

So, yeah, our brains are hardwired to do this. And this shortcuts seeking makes people prone to believing lies over truth. Because if I give you a truth that takes an hour of self work and introspection, or I give you a lie, that’s a magic pill, you can pop in three seconds. Your brain is going to be like, I don’t know, dude, even if it doesn’t work like this is like a shortcut worth exploring. Like let me dive into this. And so it’s a bit difficult to blame or judge or You know, hate on people for believing lies, if we were saddled with this inclination from the beginning. And as you come as a fresh soul into a new body, you might argue that we’re innocent and pure, and we’re not prone to this. 

 

But kind of like, you know, throwing someone into water or a pool. If they’re there from the beginning, they’re just going to accept that reality like, Oh, I’m surrounded by water or like this is I have to swim to live or something. If they’ve never experienced the ground or the air, they might not ever question it, right? It would be weird to do so. So even if you take a pure, innocent soul, baby, and you plunge them into a group of adults who are all taking shortcuts with the hardwired shortcut brain, they’re just going to absorb it by osmosis pretty much instantly and, and be doing that. Anyways. So this is one reason. Another reason is that people have well, I don’t know, taking, taking a broader view, or stepping back and seeing a full picture takes discipline and focus and practice. 

 

And it’s not something that society teaches. So again, like plunging into water, a baby or a soul who comes into a new body gets plunged into an environment of people who never take a step back. Like, they’re always hyper focused on their own thing, they don’t see other people’s perspectives, even empaths. And, you know, critical thinkers and so on, myself included, have trouble taking a step back from the situation and seeing the full picture. And so and so every, every new child that’s born also gets saddled with this. So it’s kind of like looking at one or two steps of a recipe.

 

 So if you have a giant recipe, like, this is the problem with the gurus as well. They, they, they teach one step of a recipe, like you have to get marketing down, if you get marketing down, you will win, I’m telling you, let me teach you my marketing course, and then someone takes the marketing course. And they’re like, oh, this didn’t work at all, or I helped a tiny bit. And it’s like, Sure, it helped a tiny bit, because it was a seven step recipe and that guy just obsessed over step three, dude. And this is what happens with most people. In most situations. It’s a normal inclination, like we’re born into this inclination, it’s the inclination to hyper focus on one or two steps. 

 

And think that that is the full picture. And I don’t know if stepping back to see the full picture means, like, is avoided because all we have to do, then we’ll have to do more work. If I step back, I see all seven steps. Now I don’t, I can’t just say, oh, take the marketing course and win at life, I have to say, Oh, holy crap, I gotta take the marketing course I gotta learn how to generate traffic, I got to engage the audience, I got to figure out how to get referrals. I gotta, you know, like, I gotta make a juicy offer. It’s like, as soon as you see all the other steps, you’re signing up for a lot more work and personal growth and practice and skills or hiring more people or something. But as long as you just think, step three is all I need. 

 

This marketing is all I need. I like this guru, he tells me marketing is all I need. If you focus on that. It’s a lot more manageable. It’s like, instead of eating the elephant, you’re just eating one bite at a time. And so people are inclined to believe half truths. Right? It’s very, very appealing to believe a half truth or to believe one step of the recipe. Rather than taking a step back and seeing the whole recipe. 

 

The same happens in politics. It’s always nice to believe one extreme view. Because if we believe one extreme view, we can instantly dismiss all of their views with zero critical thinking, zero mental effort, zero mental work and zero soul searching, we have our answer. It has absolved us of all of this other work and practice and discipline. And so you see, like a number of reasons why people are inclined to believe lies and half truths, rather than seek the full truth. And I guess it boils down to seeking the full truth always takes more work.



Sunshine: Yeah, it’s well, and to me, maybe it’s not just more work. Maybe people will lean towards whichever brings them you know, either less pain or more pleasure.



Jay: Yes, absolutely. I guess my question to you would be, how do you define work because to me, anything that’s pleasure, doesn’t count as work. And anything that is painful counts as work. So I like we’re kind of talking about the same thing semantically.



Sunshine: Yeah, I think yeah, no, I it totally, it’s totally in cement in semantics here of just yeah, you know, whatever is going to you say, like more work, but it’s yes, pleasure could could take you five times the amount of effort that in the end, but you’ll lean towards it. And so yeah, that truth really, if the truth is going to bring you more pleasure, right? You may very well lean into it. But if the lie keeps you from pain, you You very well, May stick with that particular piece.



Jay: Exactly. And that’s what often happens, I call it vegetables in candy. People are inclined to gorge themselves on candy, they’ll eat it all day long if they can. But you asked them to eat a vegetable. They act like it is the end of the world, right? I mean, you can find a vegan who’s cool with it. But yeah, for the most part, people are seeking out candy and not just physically but mentally and emotionally. That’s why they want to doom scroll. That’s why they want the dopamine hits from the internet. That’s why they want the validation of, of self righteous arguments.

 

 That’s why they want to troll in the comments. If they can get some quick candy for their life. They’re gonna gorge on it. And so everyone’s seeking spiritual candy instead of spiritual vegetables. And I get it, I get it. Like, of course, you want spiritual candy and not spiritual vegetables. But if you want to live a real healthy, full fit long life, you want a healthy spiritual life, do the work, see get the vegetables, I know they take longer to chew, but you got teeth, do it like, bite, bite it and sink your teeth into some real spiritual truth people and put the spiritual candy away for a while.



Sunshine: No, I actually love that you kind of call it that because, you know, candy can be very, you know, delicious at the moment. But you know, it has a lot of detriments to us. And you know, it causes severe inflammation within the body. You know, some people actually, that inflammation leads them down the path of diabetes, you know, and yeah, it’s, uh, but the spiritual vegetable to that point. Sure, it might take a little bit more effort, it might take a little bit more time. It might not have that level of the same dopamine hit, but you don’t end up in the spikes, right? If you want to equate this to like blood sugar. You don’t end up in these highs and these lows, life feels really wonderful and good, consistently.



Jay: Yep. And so for me, love and Jesus and the things he embodied and taught was like spiritual vegetables. Most of his stories are about doing the right thing, but the hard thing? Yeah, like, no matter, no matter how hard it looks, he made the right choice. You know, even if it’s like, do I raise my hand against these Romans? Or do I let them kill me? Like, it’s like, I let them kill me. Like, it’s like, man, dude, you really did the right thing. Like, instead of raising your hand, because he’s just gonna come back and reincarnate, and another lifetime or three days later, or whatever you call it. 

 

And it’s like, these stories to me were spiritual vegetables. And spiritual candy is like the secret, like, sit on your couch, don’t do anything. Don’t worry, you don’t need personal growth. Just think hard, and you’ll get what you want. You’ll win the lottery. It’s like, Come on, man. Like this is spiritual candy. This is dopamine hits. This is not healthy for you and won’t help you.



Sunshine: Yeah, no, I often teach that magic is half intention, half action, amen. It’s not just setting the intention and hoping it comes, you know, it’s taking the actions and following those intuition trails, to get you to, you know, where it needs to be.



Jay: thought this is a big debate in most spiritual communities. Can I just pray and intend and magically have things up here and manifest and happen in my life? Or do I have to have action, and you’ll get the other side of it, which is like, just hustle, just do whatever you have to do. Just grind it out and do the action manifestations, a joke, secrets lie, just make me take care, take control of your life and whatever. 

 

So these are the two sides of the debate. And one of my biggest philosophies is, there’s always a third way, whenever you see two extremes of people arguing, there’s a third healthier way, if you see like a liberal arguing with a conservative, and one’s like, you have to do this and you have to pay for everybody welfare and just pay for every human being on Earth and pay for all of the 8 billion or whatever. And then you see the Conservatives were like, No, I’m not paying for anyone ever. 

 

And it’s like, there’s probably a third way where you take what you have and you gently and generously help people when you can when you feel called to. And you don’t hold on to these extremes. Like, there’s a third way where you don’t have to be super dogmatic. And with intention and action, I also go a certain way, like you said, half intention and half action. I don’t say exactly that. But, but similar like, that’s, that’s a healthy third way, at least like that I resonate with that.

 

 My little nuance on it is that there are times and moments in our lives where we can manifest action free. But there are also times in our lives where we must manifest, including action. And this is how the Earth has been designed. This is how the universe has been designed. And the thing is, it’s a bit tricky to tell which is which. So, so since we, since most people can’t tell, which is which you might as well use half intention and a half action.



Sunshine: Yeah. Well, you know, it, you’d be getting down into like, yes, it’s absolutely possible. And, and I’ve said this too, right. You know, I don’t believe in absolutes, or anything of that nature, I walk a gray line on most things, you know, in, even I would say, if you could give me pure examples of manifesting without action. The non action being taken is still fucking ash. Right, like, so your choice to say like, well, if you make if not making a choice is just as much of a choice as making a choice, right? And so like, you know, is that still like, so I always when I talk about half intention, half action, I’m not saying you’ve got to go like, you know, I’m going to intend to win the lotto. 

 

And literally, you know, you got to go out and buy that lotto ticket, you know, or else you’re never going to win. But it could be a matter to have, you know, somebody else. You know, you show up at your birthday party, and there’s a card with a scratch off ticket in it. Right. So like, you would never equate it. You could never ever buy that lotto ticket, but that lottery could still show up at your doorstep, so to speak. Right? So, it’s, um, that’s why I say it’s not a matter like even the non action is still taking action in some way, shape, or form.



Jay: Absolutely. I totally agree. Beautifully said I loved your example. And, and to really drive the point home, if someone got whiny and lowered their vibration and started bitching and moaning and they skipped their birthday party. Their non action would talk them out of the manifestation. Yep. So perfectly said.



Sunshine: Yeah, I’ve I like you said that. Yeah. Before I think we even started that you’d listened to? Or maybe it was after we’d started the last podcast, the one that I just recorded on Friday. Yeah. Those vibrational states, right, and touches a little bit about that. You, you know you, you talked about this whole action and this, you know, kind of the lies and one of the other things that I pulled out, which I thought was just, I don’t know how much you look, but you have a quote on one of the pages. I don’t remember which one it was on, but it was Carl Jung. Knowing your own darkness is the best, best method for handling the darkness of others. I don’t know if you happen to see that my bio and some of like the quote, yeah, Carrie,



Jay: I saw it in your on your about page. It said the same thing. But it was not from Carl Jung. It was from Pedro.



Sunshine: Yeah, She phrases it only when we know our own darkness. Can we sit in the darkness with others? And so I thought it would be just fun. Like, why is that? Why is that like such a powerful statement there? Because you’ve got you’ve got people of our time. You know Petrova is still around. You’ve got Carl Jung for many. And we could probably look and see all sorts of philosophical folks that have stated this. Why, why is this such a powerful statement? Why does it keep repeating throughout the centuries?



Jay: Yeah, so I call these recurring truths, recurring truths. And they’re recurring truths, because they’re universal truths, because they’re timeless, Evergreen truths that hold true and will always hold true I would imagine. I mean, I can’t predict infinity but they seem to be foundational to the way the universe operates. 

 

And so they recur through era after era time after time. And I I believe that the universe or source is set up to ensure that some mouthpiece from every era is speaking these universal truths and manifesting them into into the world into reality for others to resonate with and recognize you and this particular one about knowing your own darkness, to know the darkness or to be with the darkness with others.

 

 I think it relates directly to your connection ritual in the beginning of this podcast, because if we’re all individuated aspects of source, which I believe is pretty, pretty close to provable, but regardless, if you believe that then as each individual goes through their journey, they’re going to experience joy and pain or sunshine and rain or light and dark. This polarity, this contrast, this whole point of a journey to go from some thing to some other thing. And as individuals are going through this just like in your connection, ritual, like we’ll be unable to connect with others, if we’re not at peace with darkness, darkness as a whole, like darkness as a universal concept. So if, if you’re not at peace with darkness, either in yourself or in another, then then you’re screwed like that, the connection can’t happen. 

 

Because it’s like two polarities trying to connect with one another like two matching polarities to mismatch polarities trying to connect with one another, one is not at peace with darkness, and the other is at peace with darkness. And so there’s going to be discord and mismatch and like the pieces won’t fit and you won’t be able to connect until some adjustment is made. Or the degree, the degree of connection will mirror the degree of adjustment. So the more the closer these two are.

 

 On this topic of darkness and light, the more they’re going to be able to connect and the further they are on this topic from darkness and light, the less they’re going to connect. And so this recurring truth keeps coming up error after error to help us connect like humans are wired for connection. Oh, yeah. Even a hermit on a mountain is wired to connect with the squirrels or the dogs or the plants or something. We’re wired to connect and it feels yucky. Like it feels bad when we can’t connect. And the less connection we have, the more depressed and sad we feel. And one major thing that prevents connection is not being at peace with either our darkness or the darkness of someone else. 

 

And so then this truth must be repeated recurrently from every era to guide people back to this principle and help them connect again. Right, it’s set up it’s set up like that, at least that’s my, my current understanding I I haven’t thought it through enough or as much as you have maybe. But I think this is correct.



Sunshine: No, I don’t, you know, I’m certainly not looking for correct or incorrect. Right, you know, your philosophical thoughts on it. It’s just such a fascinating statement. And so many people that have been that have truly walked in embrace their own spiritual journey hit this discovery, like they truly do they, they hit that dark night of the soul, and they step out onto the other side and go home. Oh, shit, man. Right? Like, who I you know, and they’re, and they like, when they watch someone else walking into it. They want to be like, Yeah, I know, that was rough. 

 

That’s okay. Don’t worry, you’ll get out, you’ll get through it, you know, they’re just, I, you know, you keep going. Because it’s so hard to truly understand what rock bottom is or what despair and true suffering is. If you’ve never, never witnessed or experienced it, and it’s, you know, it’s I have a friend, who’s also a client of mine, that we got to talking about some stuff and I was really like, this, like, hit kind of came across me. And you know, maybe you’ve even stumbled across this and some of your own working with some folks that we got to talk about something some real difficult part in life. 

 

And, you know, I kind of stepped back and I said, Have you ever hung out with the derelicts? Have you ever hung out with the people in the gutters? Have you ever hung out with the people that have been, you know, homeless and like at their wit’s end whether it’s from a choice or a situation right because there are some people that are almost by choice, right? There are some people that are homeless because of the situation and they stepped back and they said no, and I said, wow, you know, which would share this whole Download of information that, you know, this client and I will be going through. Because, you know, they want to help people, they truly want to help people and I had this final realization that there are a lot of people that you’re not going to know. Right?

 

 Because you haven’t walked in those shoes, you know, you haven’t you haven’t sat next to someone that, you know, suffered with psychosis, and we’re convinced that, you know, their best friend was now part of the CIA, right? Or, you know, someone that literally was, you know, going through withdrawals, because, you know, they went on a binge again, you know, and had relapsed for the umpteenth time, like, you just there are things that you’re you’re not going to be able to sit and talk about, because you haven’t bared witness to that experience. 

 

Which, you know, some of these folks that I’m describing, I think you might even label, which is another like lovely synchronicity, looking at your stuff, J rise, a rebel. Right. And you literally state you, you want to work with these rebels. And like, why is that? Why do you want to work with folks that are? Maybe they’ve claimed that title as a rebel? Or maybe you, you know, they’re tiptoeing and dancing around that world? Why? Why do you want to work with those folks?



Jay: Well, when I was younger, I mentioned I was like an arrogant, condescending, entitled, asshole. And I judged everybody. And I had trouble connecting with other people very deeply. Because even though I had a lot of value to give, and a lot of wisdom to share, that was always like, a divine gift of mine. It was useless because you, what’s the point of having wisdom or insight, or intellect or any of these things? If you’re unable to connect to another human being and share it, then it’s, it’s like, it’s like a trophy in a closet or something, right? 

 

It’s like an unused car, like a car, like sitting in an airport somewhere. What is this? It’s useless. You have to connect it with somebody, it has to be connected to a user. And so as a kid, I didn’t connect to anyone, and I judged all of them. And this prevented me from sharing my gifts. And at the same time, I also felt like a rebel. So I saw myself as a rebel, but I was judging all the other rebels. If I saw some girl showing off or showing some skin, I would call her a slide. 

 

If I saw some rich guy, some corporate dude who had done well for himself, regardless of how he got it, I would just assume he was sleazy and, like, abusive, and a terrible capitalist. When I saw a celebrity who was getting fame for some four chord song, I would judge them like I’m a better artist, I’m a better musician. Like, what is it for court crap, I can’t believe they’re making money and people are liking this and just just so much judgment.

 

 And it blocked all connection and blocked all value and my trial by fire my hell years, homeless, burned all that out to me. You know, if you temper a sword or put something through the fire, it comes out stronger and pure, and all of the junk is washed away. And I had many years of that fire. I was robbed while I was homeless, like I was evicted to get to end up there, I got jailed, I lost all my friends, I was betrayed and abandoned and all this kind of shit. And it’s like, little by little, I dropped my ego and learned my lessons and started using my gifts properly. And, and I’m not even saying I’m, you know, free all that now, right? 

 

I still gotta keep an eye out and do my due diligence and make sure I don’t get too over confident or cocky or whatever. And it taught me a lot. And when you’ve been on both sides, when you’ve been on the Super judgy side, and you’ve been on the judgment free accepting side. When you’ve known both sides, you can really walk the path. Well, you can be really sure about what you’re doing.

 

 You’ll know if you’re getting close to one side or the other. It’s people who haven’t walked both sides that are more likely to fall off the path because they can’t tell when they’re getting too close to one side or the Other and so I came out of that still with my identity as a rebel. I think most homeless people would feel sort of rebellious to society. This is not normal. But so would psychics and witches and, and only fans models. And so I ended up being able to connect with rebels on a much deeper level. 

 

Once I put all that judgment away, and I went through my own hardships, and I made peace with my own darkness, I was able to resonate and connect with and harmonize with their darkness. And once you’re able to harmonize with someone darkness, you can, you can meet them on the same page where they’re at, and you can start elevating together. And so I always my, my tagline is, together, we rise together, we rise. And I’d always said that since I was a kid, but it wasn’t very true. It wasn’t very true when I was young because I never got together with anyone, not really not on a deep level.

 

 You have to have a connection before you can rise together and I didn’t realize that I didn’t understand. So after I finally got the hang of it and I was able to start connecting with rebels of all sorts, I can help homeless people I can help drug addicts I can help a cult and witchy people you know, I could help techie nerd geeks or whatever I could I could help frat boys and steroid heads and whatever. 

 

Like I just became cool with everybody. And, and one of them was the only fans models the bimbos because bimbos who want to become hyper feminine, hyper feminine expressions of humanity and they want to be hyper sexualized and show off and they want to deliver sexual experiences or sensual entertainment of some kind to, to others to the masses, and they want to build a business off of it or a career off of it, or are massively hated. Oh, yeah. But Jesus hung around with harlots and thieves. Yep. And like harlots and thieves back in back in their day was the equivalent of fancy. 

 

Yeah. And scam artists like, or like, you know, those marketing hustlers you see them on. they have like the long sales pages with the buy now, and it just feels sleazy, right? Yep. But I have no problem with either of these groups. I’m happy to help them both. But not exactly on their level, like I’ll meet them where they are. But then the idea is to elevate us both together, we should both be rising together. 

 

And by the time I’m done, they may or may not want to continue that career, they may want to go harder on it and really crush it, but in a sort of uplifting, positive way. Or they may want to leave that career behind and explore something else, because they got into it for the wrong reasons. Anyways, I don’t know. I don’t judge. But I was able to help these people. And we closed that business or it’s on hiatus. But it was a great example of me, helping rebels and targeting rebels and marketing to the rebels. 

 

And I love it. I love every rebel. I love connecting with rebels. I love everything about rebels. My belief is that rebels are the ones that always transform the world. Like Steve Jobs was a rebel and he made a huge impact. Right? Like Kim Kardashian was a rebel and she made a huge impact. And I don’t know if these, if you like, approve of these people or like what they’re doing in life or whatever, Elon Musk is a rebel. 

 

He has done some crazy things. And he didn’t do it the normal way. But now he’s behaving very strangely like Kanye West. Same thing, like they go on these weird journeys, but they’re all rebels, and they’re all making a huge impact. And I believe that every rebel I meet can make a huge impact and leave a massive legacy. And it’s one that some people will approve of, and some people won’t, but I’ll be over here not judging.



Sunshine: Yeah. You know, I love it so much. And it’s just, there’s so many these little tiny like, synchronicities that you and I had J rise, including when I was in my 20s I actually worked for an adult entertainment company as their office manager. And so I would hire you know, I hired and fired strippers for like four years, but I’d coach them in the meantime to fight you know, you know, like, why are you doing all sorts of stuff or you know, but yeah, there’s that one and the the no judgment thing like I have. I don’t even know. It’s interesting because I literally had a session with someone yesterday, they were coaching me, and I got into and I shared you know, I I’m a firm I don’t really judge people. I don’t judge other people, but you want to know what I do. I judge my luck. himself. Oh, no. Here’s the fucking human. I’m like everybody else is perfect exactly the way they are. Right? But I’m human, I’m still and so I’ll find these like little like blips where I’m judging myself. You know, it’s a really fascinating thing. And it happened. You know, about two weeks ago, I was walking, it was early in the morning, on my way, you know, into, I have a corporate job, too. And I stopped at a store and I’m walking out and this woman was wearing something and all of a sudden, and this is why I say, because it sounds like I’m judging her. This woman was wearing something. I was like, oh, man, I don’t know why she’s wearing that. And all of a sudden, like, my guides slapped me across the face. And they’re like, really? And I was like, holy shit. That wasn’t for her. That was for me. Yeah, we’re mirrors. Right? I was just judging myself. I was like, wow, wow. Wow. Right. You know? And that’s because anything else, no judgement. I love everyone. I don’t care what you’ve done where you’ve been. And don’t get me wrong when I was younger. Before I I’d really, they got me into some really fucked up situations. But I didn’t, you know, I just judge, you know, I think a lot of Christians would say, That’s God’s only place, you know, God’s the only one to judge. But yeah, I mean, to me, our wounds are what caused that judgment. So often, if you’ve done your work and you know, you’ve kind of stepped into a spiritual path, that judgment becomes less common. But how did you get to that point? Right. How did you get to this judgment free? Because you said you used to, like, was it one thing? Is there one place? Was there one tool? Was there one? Where did you pinpoint where you went from a judgy asshole? You know, I love everyone, and I’m not judging anyone, right? Like, how did that happen? How did you let go of that judgment?



Jay: I can tell you, but most people don’t like the answer. And it’s not usually helpful to them. But it’s because life humbled it out of me. Life beat that judgment out of me miserable day after miserable day for two and a half years. And the turning point only came when I stopped judging everything. And I accepted that I was going to be the gifted genius failure on this bench for 36 hours. I’m just I can’t even kill myself, right? Like I can’t even commit suicide properly. Like, I was like, every label anyone could ever put on me. I accept it. I’m gonna die as a homeless person.

 

 Broke, arrogant, conceited, useless, suicidal, depressed failure, like alone, isolated, abandoned, betrayed. worthless human beings like, I just accepted it. Like, I accepted those things. So I put the judgment of myself away for once, finally, and I did it all at once. which most people don’t want to do. This is like a huge quantum leap because you go from suicidally hoping you die one day to helping Evan Carmichael the next day, and judging nothing. So it’s like an overnight abandonment of judgment. It’s like replacing judgment with acceptance overnight. And most people don’t like this. I think the only similar story I’ve heard is Eckhart Tolle, where he was, you know, similar to me, like just miserable for a long time. And then one night, overnight, he became this elite guru or whatever he is, now this very, very divine embodiment, that of wisdom that he has become. 

 

And I don’t speak as eloquently as him perhaps, but I did experience a similar Quantum Leap or overnight shift. And it’s also the buildup of years of pain and trauma and judgment, right. If you judge, if you judge the world and yourself for 20 years, that build up and life will either take you off this planet for that much judgment, or it will give you some transformative experience, some rock bottom experience that will flip you away from that judgment. But that level of judgment can’t really continue. It’s not sustainable, right nature, nature will reset this somehow. If you want to be some dictator, you know, Hitler or Stalin or something. This can only go on for so long. Those guys always get removed eventually. Ah,



Sunshine: I love it. I love that you’re saying it. You know, I just want to, you know, because I asked if it was one thing and you told you literally He said like some people don’t like this answer don’t like, and just all that it was right. Granted, what you’re saying right now is it took you to a rock bottom to get there. But the only thing that it was was to stop judging yourself and start accepting. 

 

Really just who you are, which is whatever that is, right? Like whatever that was like you literally said, you just stopped judging anything and just accepted where you were at? Yep. Like not looking at anything else, not looking for anything else external, not looking for anyone else to validate you. None of that, right. And so it’s like, often, you know, us made the comment, you know, we are mirrors, right, when we have this judging default. Ultimately, what we’re doing is we’re spending all of the time judging ourselves and not accepting just our own divine self in this world.



Jay: Amen. My part, oh, go ahead. How are you? My partner is sinful. I helped her with a similar thing. Like she was super judgy as well. And she’s still not quite exactly where I am. But she’s made massive strides. And it shows and people can feel it and her acceptance and kindness and love and joy has become far more apparent. And it’s, it’s really a blessing. She did the same thing, though. She just didn’t do it all in one night. Like she’s, she’s doing it over time. And I get to watch it in front of my eyes. 

 

And that’s a beautiful thing. But we have to have conversations, we don’t have to, but we end up having conversations or going through shared experiences, where she has a label on herself that she eventually has to accept. So she had to accept the label of junkie or addict, she had to accept the label of overeating or binge eat or whatever you call it, she had to accept the label of fat, she had to accept the label of old or wrinkled or whatever, all of these things. And when she did that, she became slimmer, and her skin smoothed out. And like her track marks disappeared. And it’s the acceptance that brings massive transformation. It was for me, and it was for her. And I think it would be hard pressed to find any human being where acceptance doesn’t lead to significant transformation. So I actually feel confident in saying this will work for everyone.



Sunshine: I’m getting chills because my favorite prayer and you may even guess it. You know, and I’m a recovering alcoholic myself. So anybody that’s ever been around programs going to know it, you know, and there are different variations that are removed the very like Christian, but God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.



Jay: It’s a beautiful prayer. I’ve heard many versions of it. And I actually add a little tweak to it, which is God grant me, grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change, which paradoxically, will then change them.



Sunshine: Yeah, I love it. I mean, I love it so much, you know, J rise. I’m curious, you know, if we were to go ahead and wrap this up today, because we could probably keep talking for hours and, you know, maybe next, next even season it would be delightful to have you back. But you know, we’re kind of, we’re kind of talking about this acceptance. And so, you may be this is your answer.

 

 But if you could just give our listeners like they were in a place in their life right now, if somebody stumbled across this, you know, and they they’ve been, they’ve been inspired or they’re like feeling that like that divine kind of inspiration flowing through them and you needed to make one thing tell them one thing right now that’s going to give them some forward momentum or like take them up just one notch, rise them up. What’s that one thing that you would want to share with everyone right now?



Jay: Practice. This is the most powerful thing. It’s how we’ve gotten better at everything. It’s how our lives have improved in every single way. When you were a toddler, you practiced walking. And even if you fell, you kept practicing with a happy heart until you got it. You practice pronouncing words, even difficult ones like yellow until you get it with a happy heart through failure. And for some reason, maybe because of the short cut thing we talked about earlier. Most people these days in society, avoid practice, like it’s the plague or they try to hire someone to do it for them or they want to delegate it or they want to avoid it or they want to eliminate it or they want AI to do it for them. 

 

They want to press a button. They want a magic pill and the last thing they want is practice but life is a game and you can get good at it if you practice. If you come to earth and try to delegate all the stuff and you refuse to practice the game of life, then you lose and you suck at it and your life will suck. If you get good at life at navigating life and connecting to source and spirit and manifesting your own life, it becomes a joy, it becomes heaven on earth. If you refuse to practice, you suck at it, and you will always suck at it, and it will be hell on earth. And it will get worse and worse, because the game compounds over time. Like, if it sucks a little right now and you refuse to practice next week, it’s gonna suck more and the week after it’s gonna suck more and a month from now and a year 10 years, it’s gonna really suck. 

 

But if you practice today, and practice tomorrow, it will get a tiny bit better. And next week, it’ll get even better. And next month, even better, and 10 years from now, you’ll be living in paradise. And you’ll be saying, I’m living my dream life. I can’t believe I did this. I can’t believe I manifested this, but I can believe it. Because you started practicing. You committed to practicing, you kept practicing. And now you’re good at life. 

 

This is the number one piece of wisdom I could give anyone. It’s not in almost any gurus or spiritual book like they rarely mention it or talk about it. But it is practice, practice living life. Well practice your mental health. Practice your emotional health, practice doing the right thing, practice having discipline, practice, having commitment, and you will fail, you will struggle, it won’t be easy. It won’t be perfect the first time you will have some back slides, but just keep practicing. 

 

And you’ll eventually get it the same way you did when you were a toddler learning to walk and talk and you got those things real fast. And your parents were like, wow, they’re growing so fast. He’s learning so quickly. I can’t believe these people, oh my God, these children. You’ll have that again. In your life. You’ll have that for spirituality, you’ll have that for mental health. And people will be like, how are you getting so good so fast? And you’ll know the secret was practice.



Sunshine: Oh, gee, Rhys, I You what an amazing last sentiment. So I am just oozing with all sorts of good feelings right now. Because that’s amazing. And a beautiful, beautiful piece of advice. I’m gonna thank you, guys, for joining us today. You know, this has been incredible and amazing. And, you know, for everyone that is listening. You know how we wrap this, if this is not your first time, find your path, follow your path into your deepest spirituality, so much love from me to all of you. We’ll see you again next time. Oh, my goodness, that was awesome. And the practice thing is so true.

 

 And it was reminding me of and we do we record all of these because there’s always some kind of weird thing that pops out. It reminded me of like, one day at a time, one minute at a time, one hour at a time. I don’t know if I know. I read a little bit about sin. You know, I don’t know if she did any type of 12 Step programs, but like Narcotics Anonymous AAA is little like, just keep coming back? Yep. Right. That’s like, yeah, just keep coming back. So like that’s that practice, just keep getting once at one point, it’ll stick. So it works for everything. I love it so much. So thank you, for your time today and your view. 

 

Yeah, what will happen is I’m actually gonna be working, my assistant will be starting to do all of the editing for the season. As I said, we’ll be announcing it and launching it on October 31. It should be up on all of the platforms so as long as we don’t run into any issues getting anything up, I’ll send notice and an announcement before the season actually comes out. That way, you’ll be able to pay attention to it.



Jay: I want to promote it. So if you just give us an early heads up, we’ll make promotional materials and stuff.



Sunshine: Perfect. I love that so much. And yeah, I will. I’m probably going to actually talk Devin and I are talking tomorrow about when we want to start recording Season Two but whenever I know that I’ll shoot everybody an email again in case anybody wants to come back and you were an absolute delight. So I saw you



Jay: Amazing interviewer was impressed.



Sunshine: Thank you. It’s something I enjoy doing. 



Jay: So you’re clearly good at it.



Sunshine: Well, you uh we’re gonna part ways now because I’m gonna get ready to go head out for the night and you have a fabulous rest of your evening. A good rest of your weekend. Tell sin wasn’t on but thank you for setting everything up. And I will. I hope that both of you have a beautiful rest of your summer and start enjoying the start of fall here in the next I think two weeks



Jay: So I’m psyched maybe I’ll end up hiring you to put them up by psychic gifts.



Sunshine: Ah, if you ever have, I mean now you just let me know. I appreciate it. All right. Do you guys take care and we’ll talk again soon.



Jay: Lots of love keeps rising. Bye

 

Get to know the co-hosts Sunshine and Devin

Rev. Devin Ryback, also known as The Mindful Mage, is a Personal Coach and Certified Hypnotherapist who helps people awaken their true magick and create powerful personal connections with the Divine in all things. Combining mindfulness, hypnosis, and over a decade of spiritual practice and experience, Devin shows up as a wise guide on the healing path for all who seek to know and be who they really are. Learn more at TheMindfulMage.com.

Sunshine is a Psychic Medium, Soul Healer, Spiritual Advisor, High Priestess, Reiki Master, Recovering Alcoholic and founder of Sunshine Readings. Her passion is helping others learn how to step into their shadows so they can uncover their own magick and psychic gifts needed to remove any energetic blocks to their soul’s enlightenment. She is the Creatrix of Illuminate, The Unschool of Witchcraft. This transformational program includes Sunshine’s divine-inspired gifts in 7 different monthly workshops and 1:1 access to her. In addition to owning and operating Sunshine Readings, Sunshine is also an award-winning software product manager and business operations expert that is helping corporations revolutionize their internal structure and processes to adopt a more innovative culture. In her spare time, you will find Sunshine dancing, cooking, painting, and hanging out with her five kitties in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan.

 “Only when we know our own darkness can we sit in the darkness with others.” – Pema Chodron

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